This brings back a lot of memories for me. I can still remember the terror I felt as a little kid when the new school year was starting. NOt because I was worried about school, but because it meant I would have to tell ANOTHER group of teachers taht I would not be standing for Oh Canada. Most teachers were understanding as they had dealt with witness children before, but I'll never forget some of the looks of disgust some of the teachers would give me. I was 8 for God's sake, like I knew any better. Not to mention my parents would force me to take them that idiotic School brochure. I never realized til now how much I disliked school as a young kid. School for me was not a place of learning but a place where I was abused and ridiculed by everyone in attendance.
Patriotism?
by proplog2 20 Replies latest jw friends
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SixofNine
Naeblis, you whining crybaby. School was not a place of learning? You ungrateful little shit! You learned how to take abuse and ridicule didn't you?
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Naeblis
No...
*runs off crying*
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jeffory
propolog,
i think your confusing patrotism with jingoism, which is what we are seeing a lot of now. second point , what you're feeling now is really about your negative feelings about what happened to you, one thing to remember though is the adjustment that the gb came out with in the 80's about it being ok to stand or keep standing for the anthem.read the new school brochure.
so your anger should be directed at the gb for forcing you to undergo that torture.
when i was in school one thing that i admired about jw's was what i perceived as their courage in not standing during the flag ceremony,but now i understand that those youth were not doing anything out of a real sence of pleasing god but out of forced obedience to an orgizational dictate. and as all orgazanational dictates are ,they are subject to revision, as that one was some 20 plus years after your tribulation.
i belive [now that i feel a sense of my own ability to determine whether standing for the flag is rendering worshipful honors] that standing for the flag is no more rendering worship any more then standing for a judge when he enters the courtroom .
iam proud to be an american but not proud of everything that my country has done nor am i blind to those wrongs.
standing is a show of respect , not standing is a show of disrespect to "God,s minister".
jeffory -
individuals wife
I detest that little red white & blue ribbon object in what is supposed to be a JW forum.
Have fun worshiping your red, white, and blue God.
I dont understand how displaying a flag of your country constitutes worship. My daughter waved a flag this week during a royal visit and I had no feeling that she was worshipping anybody. What is so wrong in being proud of your country?
I feel that having the flag displayed here on this site is very appropriate - I have noticed here in the UK a lot of American flags in peoples windows and it has been very moving - it serves as a symbol of unity, a fellow feeling, a sharing in grief and a message to all in the US that we stand beside you. In no way is it worshipping. It shows that we care.
I am just so glad that I no longer have to put my kids through all the emotional trauma of dealing with issues like this at school. Life for our little ones is hard enough without having to examine every little rule and regulation of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.
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Introspection
Prop, I can appreciate where you're coming from. But really, are you going to avoid entering public buildings which has a flag as well? What if they had a flag where you worked?
Interestingly, I know many people out there - particularly non-caucasians of all nationalities - have flags displayed now. The reason isn't because they're particularly patriotic, even though some of them do intend to show support. For the rest of them, the reason is simply the fact that they're not white. Essentially, they're afraid of the mindless mobs out there who might discriminate against them.
Now having said that, I will also say that I don't think it's all about race, but frankly it's a matter of unstable minds. I'm sure some angry punks (of all ages) will turn on people of their own race regardless of what that might be. Terrorist acts happen here and there, but I do feel that people with the potential to act irrationally are all around me. I am more alert to these than I am to terrorist acts. These could very well include potential terrorists, but overall I think they would be in the minority. This is why I am carrying around a metal flashlight (mag-light) simply because it's a heavy blunt object, and going to martial arts class again. It is my belief that the need for self-defense has increased over the last couple of weeks.
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Farkel
Proplog2,
: Even though I am not a 100% believer in JW's - To this day I hate, abhor, detest the rotten fruits of patriotism.
I swear Seeker my be my twin separated at birth. Time and time again he writes almost exactly what I would write before I get a chance to write it.
Among other comments he made (all of which I concur with), he said:
: What I do not like is patriotism, any more than I like any other ism that takes hold of a person's mind.
Emmma Goldman write a thought-provoking essay in 1911 called "Patriotism, A Menace to Liberty." Someone posted a link to this on the board, and I hope that person does it again. While the statistics are 90 years old, her thoughts are a fresh as they were then.
Patriotism when honestly broken down is more a blind-obedience to government and artificial fences put around real estate than it is anything else. Americans who are doing nothing more than running around with flags showing their "patriotism", and blabbing on talk shows about what "should" be done are just taking the easy-way-out to make themselves look and feel good. The REAL patriots (IMHO) are those who left family and jobs to volunteer to help those adversely affected by our latest tragedy, those who've taken their fellow citizens into their homes and done a myriad of other things to help out, sometimes at great personal cost.
Of course, the WTS fits niether definition: the political one, OR the humane one.
I'm glad you presented a contrary view, Proplog2. Not all of us are sheep governed purely by emotions-of-the-day.
Farkel
"When in doubt, duck!"
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Dogpatch
Much of your posting appears to be very angry Proplog, perhaps it is time to take a vacation. No offense intended.
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lisaBObeesa
Farkel,
You said:
“Patriotism when honestly broken down is more a blind-obedience to government and artificial fences put around real estate than it is anything else.”I am really new to these patriotic feelings I have, and I can’t speak for anyone but myself. I am shocked and amazed by these feelings, and when I look for a name for them, all I can think of is ‘patriotic.’
Maybe I have the wrong word? I’m feeling more connected to my neighbors and to the country. I am feeling ‘a part of’ something bigger than myself. I am feeling love of my homeland. I am feeling proud of our government. (Crap! I never thought I would say that last one! And it’s not to say I don’t still see the bad in it, but that for the first I am seeing the good in it, too.)
And in the midst of these feelings, I am feeling no blind-obedience to the government. None. Zip. Is that really what patriotism is? If so, then what am I feeling?
--LisaBObeesa
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Farkel
: Maybe I have the wrong word? I’m feeling more connected to my neighbors and to the country. I am feeling ‘a part of’ something bigger than myself. I am feeling love of my homeland. I am feeling proud of our government. (Crap! I never thought I would say that last one! And it’s not to say I don’t still see the bad in it, but that for the first I am seeing the good in it, too.)
Nothing wrong with any of that.
: And in the midst of these feelings, I am feeling no blind-obedience to the government. None. Zip.
That's good!
: Is that really what patriotism is? If so, then what am I feeling?
You are feeling what no dub is permitted to feel, and what long-time dubs can no longer bring themselves to feel. And that is good!
Farkel
"When in doubt, duck!"