Patriotism?

by proplog2 20 Replies latest jw friends

  • proplog2
    proplog2

    I was raised a JW and during the 1950's I experienced the ugly side of flag worship.

    Date: 1960
    Place: Midwestern industrial city.
    Scene: School Gymnasium/Auditorium. 2,000 students assembled to recognize the foreign exchange students. Overcrowded facility because of the baby boom.

    The assembly started with the American National Anthem. As a conscientious JW I remained seated. Next each of the foreign exchange students walked up to the platform to give a little talk. As they walked up they played the national anthem from their country.

    Everyone stood up for these national anthems. As a conscientious JW I remained seated through 3 of these and there were another 3 to go.
    My class mates started yelling at me to stand. Finally my homeroom teacher grabbed me by the ear and led me out in front of the whole student body and pulled me to the office still holding my ear. I sat there alone in the office wondering what was going to happen next. After the assembly it was time to go to homeroom. The vice-principal told me that I should go to homeroom.

    Before I could enter my teacher said she didn't realize I was a JW. No apologies! I was to be greatful I wasn't expelled from school.

    THAT DEAR FORUM PARTICIPATNTS IS "MIND CONTROL"

    Even though I am not a 100% believer in JW's - To this day I hate, abhor, detest the rotten fruits of patriotism.

    During WWII I had close relatives who were forced to move their mobile home from a county in Iowa by a frenzied mob led by the local American Legion who threatened to burn them down.

    I detest that little red white & blue ribbon object in what is supposed to be a JW forum. I will not be responding to anything on this board again.

    My web-page is going to be off Monday.

    Have fun worshiping your red, white, and blue God.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    A friend, a fairly new convert to JWism, wrote me an e-mail a few days after 9/11 saying how serious it was for "us" (meaning "me") to get to the KH, to get right with God, basically. She went on to say that "all the prayers and Flag worship is well meaning, but..."

    I love her, but she ain't the sharpest tool in the shed; she admits that, generally speaking.

    Your reference to flag worship reminded me of her e-mail. I wish you were as smart as her.

    It may not be individualism at it's best, it may just be propagandistic pandering, most likely it is just good old fashioned rallying, but what it ain't is, IT AINT WORSHIP.

    One more thing the org perverted our view of.

  • outsider_looking_in
  • TR
    TR

    Prop,

    Wether you admit it or not, your very existance in this free country is due to patriots. You have the freedom to prosper at the expense of those who died for your freedom, even though you detest their efforts. I think you are an ungrateful sack of shit, but I respect the freedom you have to be that way.

    TR

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
    —Edmund Burke

  • proplog2
    proplog2

    In case anyone wants to stay in touch with me after Monday

    E-mail

    [email protected]

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    TR,

    There is a logical disconnect in your statements:

    Wether you admit it or not, your very existance in this free country is due to patriots. You have the freedom to prosper at the expense of those who died for your freedom, even though you detest their efforts. I think you are an ungrateful sack of shit, but I respect the freedom you have to be that way.

    None of which has anything to do with what proplog said. I support my country. I appreciate what people have done fighting on our behalf. I would support a war effort if I believed in the cause. I would fight for freedom. I respect the flag and what it stands for. I respect those who wish to wave the flag.

    What I do not like is patriotism, any more than I like any other ism that takes hold of a person's mind. Just as I respect those who wave the flag, I also respect those who choose not to wave the flag, and I respect those who criticize those who wave the flag. That's free speech, and free thought.

    What I despise is people being forced to express patriotism. What proplog described was ugly. There is a difference between fighting for freedom and patriotism.

  • TR
    TR

    Seeker,

    What I despise is people being forced to express patriotism. What proplog described was ugly. There is a difference between fighting for freedom and patriotism.

    I agree, being forced to express patriotism is not good. To me fighting for freedom in the context of living here in the U.S., upholding our constitution and upholding the values of our heritage of freedom, is one in the same as patriotism. So, I stand by what I said. Patriotism is the reason we have freedom in this country.

    TR

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
    —Edmund Burke

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    TR,

    Yeah, I hear what you are saying. I guess I'm having a hard time defining what it is that I dislike. It certainly isn't my country. And I'm proud of certain aspects of America, for a certainty. I do NOT like the saying, "My country, right or wrong" for it means that you support wrong at times. Nazi Germany showed us how wrong it can go at extremes.

    What I don't like is what you don't like: forced expressions of patriotism.

  • TR
    TR

    Seeker,

    I do NOT like the saying, "My country, right or wrong" for it means that you support wrong at times

    I agree. As good as our intentions might be, ill-conceived ideas and mistakes get thrown into the mix.

    TR

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
    —Edmund Burke

  • blondie
    blondie

    I will miss your comments, proplog2. Even as a lurker I looked for your responses.

    I still remember the 1950's and Joseph McCarthy and shudder.

    Sorry about your experience...I had a similar one.

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