by collegegirl21 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Didier:
Interesting thoughts
Just to play devil's advocate, for a moment: How might you align that with texts like John.5:36; 10:32?
John.5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
If he was a magician he was certainly not the first... Magic is as old as mankind, as the Bible itself testifies (cf. the magicians at Pharaoh's court in Exodus or in Daniel's story for instance). And it was no mere "entertainment" as in our society.
One common, current, definition of magick (as opposed to stage magic, illusions (David Blaine, Copperfield, etc.)) is "The Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will."
For what it's worth...
Hi Ross,
Just to play devil's advocate, for a moment: How might you align that with texts like John.5:36; 10:32?John.5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
I'm unsure about the point you're trying to make. Is your emphasis on dependency, as opposed to my remark on the "godman"'s own power?
If it is, that's one of the deepest paradoxes of Johannine theology: the highest Christology goes hand to hand with the strictest sense of dependence -- apart from the Father he is, stricto sensu, nothing (cf. 5:19f,30; 6:38; 7:17,28; 8:28,42; 10:37f 12:49; 14:10) -- so are the disciples apart from him, in good proto-Gnostic logic (14:12; 15:5). In effect, whoever is related to "God" is not someone else. (Of course it is the Johannine take, it doesn't apply exactly to any other NT theology, such as the christologies underlying the Synoptics.)
But perhaps I misunderstood your point...
If it is, that's one of the deepest paradoxes of Johannine theology: the highest Christology goes hand to hand with the strictest sense of dependence -- apart from the Father he is, stricto sensu, nothing
Both John and the Synoptics mention the selecting or annointing of Jesus by the Holy Spirit. In Luke 4:18-19, Jesus quotes Isaiah to say the Spirit has annointed him. In the Synoptics, power and insight come to Jesus by the Spirit, so he is dependent on the Father in that regard. Then John writes,
For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God; to him God gives the Spirit without limit. The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. John 3:34-35
Jesus was operating in somewhat the same manner as an OT prophet, yet it appears that Jesus, by virtue of his will being fully aligned with the Father and being loved and chosen in this unique way, has full authority and full access to power to use as he sees fit, since it would be used to do the Father's work according to His will.
The intent of the gospels appears to be to show Jesus was not separate from the Father--not a renegade, or independent agent setting up a new order--but that he had full approval and backing of the Father. The Laws of Moses were going to be set aside in the church, so Jesus not only had to serve as the fulfillment of the Law, but also as one fully approved to authorize the changes.
