French government's good example: being tough on cults

by greendawn 11 Replies latest jw friends

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    About a year ago a collection of sects that included the JWs demanded from the supreme court in Paris to outlaw UNADFI an organisation for the protection of the family and individual against the activities of such cultic organisations. What a cheek they had.

    The court rejected the demand and imposed on each of these sects to pay 10 000 Euro to UNADFI for damage caused to its reputation and 5 000 Euro each for court costs. Also to publish at their own cost the above decision in 8 newspapers to make it known that UNADFI was innocent of the accusations brought against it.

    It will be great if other countries like the USA and GB got similarly tough with the WTS because they are treating them very softly up to now.

    alt

  • hambeak
    hambeak

    Can you elaborate what UNADFI is and stands for I am totally unfamiliar with this.

    Thanks, Ham

  • katiekitten
    katiekitten

    The French are pretty cool IMO.

    But if anyone starts legislating against anything that can be construed against religion the JW's will be delirious, and will rush round quoting that scripture about the wild beast turning on religion.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    The US Department of State's view of this issue and others:

    http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2006/71380.htm

    In the long run it will be difficult for French institutions (btw in the above case it was not a government's but a court's decision) or others to maintain any "tough" policy regarding "cults," in view of the international opposite trend (and especially the constant US pressure for a very broad definition of "freedom of worship").

  • Dansk
    Dansk

    Here's to France - a secular state!

    Ian

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    France certainly is a secular state, but it's still a pretty Roman Catholic country... however, they figured out centuries ago to keep god-bothering out of affairs of state (thus freedom FROM religion).

    However there is a presiding cultural assumption tha people are Roman Catholic, even though this has a very large NOMINAL tacked on in front of most.

    Whilst people can pretend wine and biscuits magically becomes flesh and blood, that condoms damn you to hell, and that the Pope is inflatable (yes, I know, I'm being funny), people beleiving that using blood make god angry or that E-meters are a good way of resolving psychological conflict is viewed differently. It's not 'normal', as 'normal' is RC..

    Obviously there is a difference in HOW people come about beliefs that splits of common-or-garden religion from cults. However, it's not black and white, it's a graduated spectrum and some RC's are just as bound by cult like conditioning as some cultists are.

    Now wearing a head-scarf (not the veil, which is as much a statement of political identity as a Swastika armband or Confedrate flag) is banned in French schools along with 'large crosses'. Apparently whilst you can wear small crosses you can't wear small head-scarfs. So it ain't all roses in la belle France.

    France along with Germany and Austria (both of whom should know better) are the chief opposers to one action which will probably mark a favourable watershed in Christo-Islamic relations; the entry of Turkey into the EU.

    This is again based on the assumption that 'Europe is Christian'.

    No, actually, most of Europe is more intreseted in a lie in on Sunday, or going to Ikea, than in worshipping god, actually...

    As Turkish people are as for lie-in's on the weekend and consumer spending as your next EU citizen, I don't see why they shouldn't join once they've made a few essential human rights consessions.

    If the USA follows suit with the human rights consessions we might even let you guys join...

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    Hambreak the UNADFI is an organisation that tries to protect families from the evil influences of cults eg from the JWs that through their shunning institutions destroy families and marriages or cause the death of children through the blood ban.

    Katie I think an attack on the organisation should not necessarily be the same as an attack on the individual dubs eg if the WTS pays fines the money doesn't come from the individual dubs.

    Narkissos true the USA government is backing these cults they must have mebers that are influential with government officials, many of them are Free Masons and they certainly help each other out.

    Abaddon the French did take that dramatic step of ousting the Church from the state after all to them religious authority and the aristocracy worked together against the enslaved masses. But I also don't agree that Turkey should be part of Europe, it's too big population wise, too poor, and culturally a world apart. They should be given just a special membership.

  • chasson
    chasson

    The French's JW were not concerned by this court's case concerning the Unadfi and the Coordiap's association that Greendaw has talking about.

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    UNADFI does have the JWs on its black list of dangerous sects. My information is that the WTS was among the sects that sued UNADFI in Paris, is it accurate or not? Whatever the case the European court of human rights in 2001 upheld the decision of the French Government to deny the JWs the status of a religion and label them as a dangerous sect.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Apparently JWs were not among the plaintiffs in this particular case according to the list on the UNADFI site (http://www.unadfi.com/bulles/bulles88/bulles889.htm). From the previous article (http://www.unadfi.com/bulles/bulles88/bulles888.htm) it seems they are not in the related association either (CAP, Coordination des associations et particuliers pour la liberté de conscience), but they were on a former association (FIREPHIM) along with other groups.

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