Rutherford is definitely the driving force behind what is now known as JWs, far more than Russell. For JWs to credit their origins to Russell is similar to a Protestant saying they have their roots in Catholicism. One sprung from the other, and they share many similar beliefs, but a Protestant would generally avoid making the connection.
Should Charles Russell be credited as the founder of Jehovah's Witnesses?
by slipnslidemaster 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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OUTLAW
There would be no Rutherford without Russell..There would be no Russell without William Millar..Who is the founder of Jehovah`s Witness`s?..It`s not Rocket Science...OUTLAW
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Rabbit
What's really fun to think about is...both Russell & Rutherford would be Disfellowshipped as Apostates today.
And...all present day JW's are really Apostates that broke off from the Int. Bible Students. Damn apostates !
Hey Slippy...how are they hangin' ?
Rabbit
btw, did Russell disfellowship people who disagreed/broke rules ? Do the Bible Students practice DF/shunning ?
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jwfacts
Hi Rabbit,
Neither Russell or Rutherford were big on disfellowshipping. That wasn't really formalised until 1952 by Knorr.
Zion’s Watch Tower 1893 stated that making all followers think alike on doctrine is what originally caused the great apostasy; “The endeavor to compel all men to think alike on all subjects, culminated in the great apostasy and the development of the great Papal system; and thereby the "gospel," the "one faith," which Paul and the other apostles set forth, was lost buried under the mass of uninspired decrees of popes and councils. The union of the early church, based upon the simple gospel and bound only by love, gave place to the bondage of the church of Rome a slavery of God's children, from the degradation of which multitudes are still weak and suffering.”
This concept was echoed in 1920. Watchtower 1920 April 1 pp.100-101; “If others see it in a different way, that is their privilege. There should be full liberty of conscience.”
In 1930 disfellowshipping was even criticised as a method of control. Watchtower 1930 October 1 p.301 “Satans organization sails under the high-sounding name of "Christendom". It boasts of a membership of over 500,000,000 persons. Its members are in bondage to creeds, customs, rites and ceremonies; they dare not disown these or criticize or expose them. To do so would bring down on their heads taunts, reproaches, disfellowship and persecution. Many thousands of the Lords people are held in these denominations as prisoners , afraid to express their disapproval of the creeds, methods and customs of the organization."
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LittleToe
jwfacts:
Now THOSE are interesting quotes!!! -
Rabbit
jwfacts:
Neither Russell or Rutherford were big on disfellowshipping. That wasn't really formalised until 1952 by Knorr.
Damn...I sure didn't know that ! In a strange way it makes me feel better that JW's/Russelites/Bible Students weren't always so draconian.
I even have a little respect for Russell & Rutherford...now.
Ptewwy ! Yeck, sorry...I need to go wash out my mouth with soap...
Rabbit
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slipnslidemaster
He started the fire, and even if it burned off in a different direction then the one he started, it was still started by him and yes I think he should be credited with founding the religion. Now, as for organizing it to the modern version we know today, that with be Rutherford and Knorr.
Rutherford and his two handpicked successors...Knorr and Franz. Remember that Knorr was just the "policy/business" guy Franz was the "Oracle".
There would be no Rutherford without Russell..There would be no Russell without William Millar..
Just how heavily influenced WAS Russell from Miller? Or was it his Presbyterian roots, Jonas Wendell or even his brief foray into Eastern religions? It is ironic that both Russell and Rutherford, if they persisted in their teachings, would be disfellowshipped today. Kinda like when the Romanians came out from the Iron curtain. lol
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M.J.
Just how heavily influenced WAS Russell from Miller? Or was it his Presbyterian roots, Jonas Wendell or even his brief foray into Eastern religions?
http://www.premier1.net/~raines/offshoot.html
Primarily through Nelson Barbour when it comes to eschatology and chronology. Nelson Barbour was himself a follower of Miller and was among those who went through the "Great Disappointment". Barbour modified Miller's chronological calculations, using most of Miller's base assumptions, and Russell bought into Barbour's eschatology & chronology completely.
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Justin
The thing to remember about William Miller is that he was an orthodox Christian who differed from others primarily in his attempt to set a date for the Second Coming (originally 1843, then 1844). He did believe that the "saved" would live on a new earth (actually our own earth having been cleansed with fire), but he did not believe in two classes. Whoever would be approved would live there under Christ the King. He was an ordained Baptist minister, and believed in the Trinity. He believed in an intermediate state between death and resurrection, this despite the fact that George Storrs was already teaching conditional immortality during Miller's lifetime, and Storrs' view would become a tenet of most Adventists thereafter. The only relationship between Miller and Russell was chronology - the attempt to set end-time dates. In this respect, the link between them was Nelson Barbour.
No two situations are exactly alike, but I do not think the development of Jehovah's Witnesses under Rutherford is comparable to the breakaway of Protestants from the Catholic Church. Protestantism began with an actual rebellion against the Church of Rome, symbolized by Luther's nailing his 95 thesis to the church door in Wittenburg (though Luther himself did not realize the full significance of this at the time). Rutherford, on the other hand, changed Russell's teachings piecemeal and led the Bible Students to think they were advancing step by step into the light. He did not begin with a clean slate and construct a whole new theology at once. In fact, he couldn't without losing all of the Bible Students.
Identifying a definite founder aside, anyone relating the history of Jehovah's Witnesses has to begin with Russell and his teachings and then show how Rutherford changed matters. You can't have one without the other.