Voting with their wallet

by SirNose586 29 Replies latest jw friends

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  SirNose586

  When I came here in May, I began to see phrases like "voting with their wallets" or "voting with their feet" in regards to declining contributions and declining attendance figures. I think I am seeing the former in action....

  Last Sunday I went to the local CA. At the half they read the accounts report--aka, COUGH UP THAT DOUGH report--and there was a "$4,000 deficit." Now, I have never heard them say that there is more than enough money, or that there is not much of a deficit. There is always some sort of huge deficit. Is this the case at every CA, like there's really no deficit and they want more money? Or is my circuit stingy?

  Now comes the part you can't really fake: congregation funds on hand at the end of the month. For quite some time, ours had hovered at around 1k. After the CO's "daddy needs some new Armani suits" fund (aka "CO assistance" announcement) and the KHAA fund resolution, we are nearly broke. Congregation funds on hand at the end of the month are around $100.

  I have never heard it go this low. Wow.

  One of two things, or maybe a combo of both is going on...scraping by every month (no higher education) doesn't yield much in the way of donations, or people are really voting with their wallets. The announcer guy encouraged people to send their dollars towards "local funds" and not to the WWW.

  Did any other congregation get this strapped for funds?
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  choosing life

  We have always had a huge deficit at each circuit assembly the past couple of years. But I also noted they take a lot of liberties with donated money for the assembly. It goes to CO and DO expenses, any visiting speaker from Bethel, a standard donation to worldwide work and I can't remember what else. The list was long. The strange thing was last time I went they announced a $3-4000 debt, then said funds on hand were like $10,000. Why can't they use those funds to pay the deficit? They redecorate the assembly hall when it still looks brand new and I mean NICELY. Then we have to pay for it. They don't even ask us our opinion or offer a vote.
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  JWdaughter

  Choosing life said: They redecorate the assembly hall when it still looks brand new and I mean NICELY. Then we have to pay for it. They don't even ask us our opinion or offer a vote.

  Shelly says: Money would be a heck of a thing for them to let you all have any control over! ask your opinion or offer a vote. . .hehe. . .are you very new to the org?
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  choosing life

  Far from new-was a witness for 30 years. There was a time when they did ask if people wanted to pay for such projects. They still do on a congregation basis. last time they asked, the congregation voted them down.
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  greendawn

  I like the way they make the congos pay for everything (land purchase, construction, maintainance) yet they are in possession of the title deeds of the KHs. If the dubs got fed up waiting for the new world they will be reluctant to donate.
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  Bonnie_Clyde

  Far from new-was a witness for 30 years. There was a time when they did ask if people wanted to pay for such projects. They still do on a congregation basis. last time they asked, the congregation voted them down

  .I remember in the early 1970's that a vote was taken to each congregation involved whether they wanted to build a new assembly hall. Most people raised there hand "yes," but there about 3 dissenting votes. I remember a sister walking up to Clyde afterwards asking why he voted "no." Some time in the 1980's our circuit shifted a little and the original assembly hall was no longer in our area. This time they called in only elders who, of course, voted unanimously to build it. The rank and file were not asked for their opinion. About the same time they started billing congegations a certain amount per publisher for the automobile expenses of the CO (with no vote). On a similar note, does anyone remember way back--maybe in the 1950's--when a detailed report was given of assembly expenses and a vote was actually taken at that circuit assembly about reimbursing for these expenses? It seems like we were asked to say out loud, "yes" or "no." I was a young teenager then, but I'm sure that's what they did. If you're still reading, what do you think of this? Our congregation got a letter from the brothers who still had the old assembly hall asking for money to renovate it. Keep in mind--we were in the midst of building a new one because we were no longer in their territory. Their reasoning was, "If you have a home and you leave that home, you always want to leave it in tip-top condition for the new owners." I heard a couple of the elders talking about it. I'm not sure if they actually read the letter to the congregation, but I know they didn't act on it. That would be like saying, "Give me your home and I want you to renovate it for me too."
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  Doubting Bro

  A couple of comments on this subject:

  1) On a local level, contributions vary widely among congregations. I've notice that in some of the less wealth congregations, the contributions were higher than in at least one affluent congregations that I was in. I stopped contributing (other than a nominal amount towards local needs - lights, etc) a couple of years ago when I found out about some of the sexual abuse suits and the legal fees expended as well as the UN association. I also figured that distributing their literature for free and driving all over God's creation giving public talks was more than enough.

  2) On a circuit level, you're right about the R&F not voting on anything financial. There is always a "business meeting" held by the elders (that bother showing up, probably about half where I am) in which the CO/DO/Bethel speaker expenses, and the CO apartment expenses are approved and the contribution to the WWW is also approved. What is interesting to me is that our circuit had decided that we would send the majority of any surplus to the Society. Well, that wasn't good enough. They wanted a set amount each time, even if it meant going into the circuit surplus to cough it up. Of course, that amount is added to the "deficit" and it usually gets taken care of.

  By the way, those assembly halls generally cost more to "rent" than does a commerical building.

  What I find even more interesting is that on a local basis, many congregations pass a resolution that the body can spend say 100-200 without a vote to handle misc things that come up, but anything more has to be voted on. I know bodies I've served with in the past have been pretty frugal with the congo money. Yet, in the circuit, the individual members NEVER vote on financial matters. That authority is completely ceeded to the elders.
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  OnTheWayOut

  SirNose,

  I have not read the other comments, but want to address just your issues.
  The District Conventions and Circuit assemblies have taught many local congregations a lesson- Always report a deficit to raise more money.

  At assemblies, they say the amount raised at this assembly so far is...
  Then they say expenses related to this assembly are...
  That leave us a deficit of...

  They never say, "At our last assembly, we raised ___ after our accounts
  report, so we really have a SURPLUS."
  The number spinning is done at EVERY convention and circuit assembly.

  Your congregation numbers sound extreme, but it is possible that the elders
  decided to spend down to $100 in order to let the publishers hear such a low
  number and build back up to $1000.
  Contributions to the World Wide Work are down, though, and perhaps your
  congregation really is not covering local expenses like they used to.
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  OnTheWayOut

  Choosing life said:

  They redecorate the assembly hall when it still looks brand new and I mean NICELY. Then we have to pay for it. They don't even ask us our opinion or offer a vote.

  Your representative elders vote on this. They gather at the assembly hall and are convinced that they need this, then a vote is taken.
  To be fair, expenses are kept down by volunteer cleaning every week, going way beyond what would seem normal. (Hey, it's free, let's vaccuum and scrub each chair.) This causes expenses, overall, to be low. Listed expenses at each assembly are a portion of the money needed for remodeling, paying for the utilities, paying for the amount of money it took to erect the building, and (little known to publishers) an amount that elders have decided to send to "the Branch."
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  OnTheWayOut

  Doubting Bro said:

  many congregations pass a resolution that the body can spend say 100-200 without a vote to handle misc things that come up, but anything more has to be voted on. I

  Many are up to $500 for misc. things. Inflation. I know many brothers will break up an expense into several $400 projects that never need to get voted on.