Is the UN a government? (page 2)

M.J.

Can you provide references that say the UN is a government? From Atlantis' post it looks like the WTS is saying it's a combination of nations.

Edited: oh, I see how it makes "beast" equal to government now. And the UN is a "beast"

The WTS teaches that the UN is the 8th king mentioned in Revelation. Now if the other 7 kings are considered governments, how would you explain to a JW that the UN is not a government. No time to expand on this myself, so any answer would be good.

M.J.

Interesting. Since nations are now primarily democracies and not ruled by an autocratic king, the WTS says "king" is "government". It's pretty hard to say the UN is a "King", so maybe they thought it more plausible to say the UN is a government, in a round-about way.

JimWood

Here is a quote from our letter to the Endicott NY BOE

We find this alliance to be contrary with our Bible trained consciences. Doesn’t the Bible teach us that peace and security can only come through God’s righteous rule? (Micah 4:4) We were also reassured by the elder body that the UN is not a political group, ‘they have no land or direct jurisdiction over people.’ Keeping that statement in mind we would like to direct you to the October 22, 2000 Awake! page 31. This article titled, ‘Effort to Oust Vatican From UN’, states in the last paragraph, ‘The coalition wants UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan and ultimately the UN General Assembly to conduct an official review of the place the Vatican occupies within the world’s largest political body.’ This is not a quote from an outside source, but rather one of the Society’s viewpoints, and contrary to what the Endicott body has told us with regard to the political status of the UN.

I wonder if the equate 'political body' to a government?

AuldSoul

JimWood: I wonder if the equate 'political body' to a government?

They very well may, Jim. But they shouldn't. The Republican Party here in the States is a political body, but is not a government (although some may argue that point at this time). Certainly, within its scope of activity (as defined by its charter) it could become a government, if the world wished it so. In fact, that might happen someday, although I seriously doubt it. I just don't see where it governs. At least, no more than NATO (another political body) governs, and probably a great deal less.

blondie: The WTS teaches that the UN is the 8th king mentioned in Revelation

I thought they taught that it will be the eighth king when all the other nations of the earth give it authority. As yet, it has no power of its own, its power to act in any situation is still dependent wholly on the decisions of the several member nations and, primarily, the decisions of the Security Council members.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

Morocco

The funny thing is that it doesn't really matter if it's a "government" or not. The definition doesn't matter at this point because the Watchtower has spoken so ill of the UN that now, no matter WHAT it really is, any association with it is quite condeming. Take this bit of info from the Revelation book... I'm not sure if this has been changed with the new book: Page 246-251 "Acending out of the Abyss" Paragraph 9: "The UN is actually a blasphemous counterfeit of God’s Messianic Kingdom by his Prince of Peace, Jesus Christ—to whose princely rule there will be no end." -- By saying "the UN isn't a government" is a pathetic attempt to find a legal loophole. Too bad they already stuck the knife in their own back.

AuldSoul

Morocco,

The WTS claims the UN is a government. They claim that they view it exactly as they view any other government. They further claim that they are subject to it as they are to any other government. They further claim that their associate membership (which they call a "registration") was by way of demonstrating submission.

My point is, the UN is not a government, however much the WTS claims that it is. It has no authority at all, save that granted to it circumstantially, for a certain purpose and for a certain time period, by actual governments. It is, however, a political body with a definite political agenda. Its agenda is supported by its Department of Public Information (DPI) and other departments and sections.

The UN/DPI is also a political body, although expressly a non-governmental one. But, even if it were a government the WTS was never instructed to join the UN/DPI, so they weren't submitting to the will of a government by doing so. They voluntarily attached themselves to the UN/DPI.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

OUTLAW

It would seem they are more of a Referee for governments...OUTLAW

blondie

Not a king yet, but will be a king...I see your point...just means that some time in the future the WTS feels the UN will be a king.

But how does that agree with wihat the WTS says here:

***

w001/15pp.12-13"KeepontheWatch"***

Third,

weareliving (not will be living) inthetimeoftheeighthandfinal"king"mentionedintheprophecyrecordedatRevelation17:9-11. Here the apostle John mentions seven kings, representing seven world powers—Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and the Anglo-American dual world power. He also sees "an eighth king" that "springs from the seven." This eighth king—the last one that John envisions—now represents the United Nations (not will represent the United Nations some time in the future).. John says that this eighth king "goes off into destruction," after which no further earthly kings are mentioned.

or with this assertion by the WTS:

***

w886/1p.27TheLongMarchoftheWorldPowersNearsItsEnd***

As the prophecy had stated, this eighth king "was" from 1920 until 1939. It ‘was not’ from 1939 until World War II ended in 1945. Then it ascended "out of the abyss," reactivated as the League’s successor, the United Nations.

***

w835/1p.31ASearchingLookatRevelation***

The Babylon in Revelation is likened to a harlot riding upon a scarlet-colored beast with seven heads representing kings—an eighth king springing from the preceding seven. (This aptly depicts the League of Nations, replaced later by the UN—both of which have been made up of many nations.)

While not supporting the WTS as being correct, it does seem that in their publications they say that the UN is currently the 8th king and that previously the League of Nations held that position. It does not seem that they have said that a some future date the UN will become an 8th king. Now whether that means the UN is a government, is another question.

Blondie

Morocco

Whoops... I'll take some pepper with my foot. I'm sorry AuldSoul, I misread. My apologies.

Is the UN a government?

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