JW-apologists - and who survives Armageddon?

by Hellrider 37 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  blondie

  Actually, the WTS discusses this from another angle which I have discussed several times on JWD.

  1) Ezekiel 9:4-6

  Only people with the mark with survive Armageddon

  2) The mark is baptism as a JW

  ***

  w891/15p.20par.20HowBaptismCanSaveUs***

  In ancient times, slaves were often marked on the forehead. By the preaching work today, the antitypical ?man clothed in linen??the remnant of Jesus? anointed followers?is ?marking? those who will survive the end of this system. In this work the anointed are assisted by their associates, the "other sheep." (Ezekiel 9:1-7; John 10:16) And what is the "mark"? It is the evidence that we are dedicated to Jehovah and are Jesus? baptized disciples who have a Christlike personality.

  Especially now is it vital that we have the "mark" and retain it, for we are deep into "the time of the end." (Daniel 12:4) To be saved we must ?endure to the end? of our present life or of this system. (Matthew 24:13) Only if we thus remain faithful as witnesses of Jehovah will baptism save us.

  ***

  w874/15pp.11-12GainingPeaceWithGodThroughDedicationandBaptism***

  Getting

  the"Mark"

  6

  To be spared from God?s wrath, those who ?sighed and groaned? had to be marked on their forehead. (Ezekiel 9:4) In ancient times slaves were often marked on the forehead to be clearly identified. Distinctive marks on the forehead and elsewhere might also show that a person worshiped a certain deity. (Compare Isaiah 44:5.) So, in our day, what is the distinctive, lifesaving mark that clearly identifies its bearers as true worshipers and slaves of Jehovah?

  7

  The symbolic mark is the evidence, as if displayed on your uncovered forehead, (1) that you are a dedicated, baptized disciple of Jesus Christ and (2) that you have put on the Christlike new personality. (Ephesians 4:20-24) Since those thus ?marked? must first make a dedication, we need to know what this involves. Jesus explains: "If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake and follow me continually."?Mark 8:34.

  It seems clear from the above (and many other references in the WT publications), that according to the WTS, a person must be a baptized JW to survive Armageddon.

  Blondie
• 

  Hellrider

  DTTP wrote:

  The timing is important, the thread here is dealing with "Armageddon" not the granting of eternal life on earth. At some point after Armagedon what you colourfully say may be true, but not necessarily AT Armageddon, there is definite wiggle room under JW dogma to "let Jesus judge" those AT Armageddon.

  I have been looking at this sentence for days, and it`s eating at my brain. I don`t know exactly what it is about that sentence that is bugging me so bad. I`m thinking that it might be the two distinct ideas "truth" (as in "the Truth") and "wiggle room". It`s very annoying.
• 

  Death to the Pixies

  Room for individual interpretation.
• 

  OUTLAW

  Death to pixies..You have the WBT$ support to tell any lie you want,to make the WBT$ look good..JW`s are taught as children,only Jw`s will survive armageddon..Are we to forget what we have been taught from childhood?..AlanF was kind enough to post the infomation from the September 1,1989 WatchTower Page 19..Still you chose to ignore the What the WBT$ has taught for all these years..Why?..The religion is a "LIARS CLUB"..To the outside world the JW`s are seen as liars..They don`t remember preaching Armageddon would be here by 1975,in fact they deny it..More lies....Lies from a BrainWashed Cult...OUTLAW
• 

  Hellrider

  DTTP wrote:

  room for individual interpretation

  I call it something else. When you have, in one magazine, something like:

  *** rs 47 Armageddon ***
  What will happen to young children at Armageddon?
  The Bible does not directly answer that question, and we are not the judges.

  ...and then in another, you have the exact opposite:

  w89 9/1 19 Remaining Organized for Survival Into the Millennium
  Only Jehovahs Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the great crowd, as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil.

  ...then you are teaching your followers two completely different (opposite) doctrines at the same time. IF they had written, from the beginning "we don`t know if all non-jws will be killed, they might, but we don`t know, it`s up to Jehovah", then you could have argued that it was a matter of individual interpretation. But the WTS doesn`t say that, and they never did. They say "We don`t know who will survive,only Jehovah does" PLUSS (!!!!) "Only baptised jws and their underaged childrend will survive Armageddon" (and they most definitely say this last one most often!!!), and then we have a case in which you cannot possibly argue that the doctrine is up to "individual interpretation". On the contrary, the WTS are teaching two completely opposite doctrines at the same time! I think I know why they are doing this, and I`ll try to explain. Read the passage below a 1000 times, and see what it does to your brain:

  Only jws will survive Armageddon - We don`t know who will survive Armageddon - Only jws will survive Armageddon - We don`t know who will survive Armageddon - Only jws will survive Armageddon - We don`t know who will survive Armageddon - Only jws will survive Armageddon - We don`t know who will survive Armageddon - Only jws will survive Armageddon - We don`t know who will survive Armageddon - Only jws will survive Armageddon - We don`t know who will survive Armageddon - Only jws will survive Armageddon

  Now, what did i just do? I certainly didn`t give you a doctrine that is "up to individual interpretation". Nope, what I did was I just turned your brain into mashed pees. I have now molded your mind into a mindset in which it can believe two opposite doctrines at the same time! - and when to choose one over the other, depends solely on the context! So, when going door to door, or perhaps talking to the media, the trained jw-mind will present the pr-friendly version of the truth. When in his own private little sphere, or at the meetings, he/she will be 100% convinced that only jws will survive Armageddon.

  This is called "brainwashing", not "individual interpretation".

  Furthermore, the "liberal view" ("we don`t know who will survive Armageddon...") serves also another purpose: It gives jw-apologists (like yourself) munition for situations in which your cult is under attack for its gruesome, violent, and self-glorifying, doctrine on this issue.

  But most importantly: In most of the passages in which the WTS presents the more "liberal view", even in these passages can traces of the REAL doctrine on the issue be found, it`s just a matter of reading between the lines, and a matter of reading the "silence in the quotes", what the passages do NOT mention (as I showed in a previous post). Also, it is important that the WTS 90 % of the time presents the view, or words its articles, in such a way that it is impossible for any jw to read them and believe in the "liberal version". Also, see the passages Blondie posted, in which she presents the fundamental view of the WTS, that the baptising is "the mark", painted on the forehead (or over the door, just as in the OT-story), to save the individual (and his underaged children) from the coming massacre.

  I believe I have proved my point.
• 

  jwfacts

  The WTS attempts to word their arguments to sound politically correct about it, but there are no two ways about it, ONLY JWS WILL BE SAVED. There are several lines of reasoning presented in virtually every Watchtower.

  • You must belong to Jehovah's Organization - What is that? - the Watchtower Society
  • Everyone in Babylon the Great will be destroyed - Who are they? - Anyone in any religion other than Jehovah's Witnesses
  • Calling on the name of Jehovah is a requirement of salvation - who do that? - few people other than JWs
  • 1 Pet 3:21 the flood corresponds to baptism - into what Christian religion? - only Jehovah's Witness

  There is a long string of quotes to back up the above concepts at http://jwfacts.com/index_files/salvation.htm
• 

  done4good

  This is a topic most JWs, (even when I was one), will sidestep, simply because most jws don't really agree, (in their hearts), with what the WTS teaches regarding this issue. Yes, they may KNOW that the articles teach that, (mainly), only jws will survive the big A, but most won't say this at the door, or even in converstion with others informally, because THEY don't really believe it. I know I didn't, and I simply couldn't bring myself to teach it.

  Bottom line, there is no way to sugar coat what the SOCIETY really believes regarding who will survive Armegeddon. The borg attributes that blessing only to themselves, AND BY SOME POSSIBILTY, maybe to some other persons, who have not "heard the Good News", (aka jw ministry), and who "have a good heart condition".

  j
• 

  jwfacts

  “Similarly, Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it.” Watchtower 1983 February 15 p.12

  “There are billions of people who do not know Jehovah. Many of them in ignorance practice things that God’s Word shows to be wicked. If they persist in this course, they will be among those who perish during the great tribulation.”Watchtower 1993 October 1 p.19