Patriotism...The American Flag...Pledge of Allegience...Are they Wrong???

by LuciousJ 25 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Nellie

  I live in America and I feel blessed to do so. I've always felt that way and I'm happy to be here. Having said that, there was always the need in me to be respectful to the flag as a symbol of the country.

  But two years ago my father passed away. When he died, he had absolutely nothing. No money in the house, no savings, no insurance - nothing. It was a bad time all the way around for me as well. My husband had lost his job following 9-11 and we were struggling financially. Struggling like I had to borrow money to get to his state and try to make his arrangements. Anyway, I didn't know his situation until I got there and I'm sure you can imagine my surprise when the reality hit me. I had no money to bury him, etc. In the middle of my panic, I discovered that as a Vet, he had burial rights. The government stepped in and handled everything ! He had a beautiful ceremony, at a national cementary, complete with a 21 gun salute! I will NEVER forget that and whatever ambivilence I felt towards the goverment dissolved with their treatment of my father.

  They folded his flag and placed it in my hands and I plan to display that flag (in a a commemorative box) in my living room forever.
• 

  carla

  Why as a Christian could you not salute the flag or say the pledge? Can you chew gum and walk at the same time?

  Showing reverence is not the same as worship. I sometimes think that because jw's do not know what true worship is, they confuse worship because the gb told them that a certain thing was worship. Yet they have no idea what 'worship' actually is because they themselves have never worshiped or had a conection with the Almighty, only with a printing company. So they don't know the difference in their heads or hearts.

  When one recites the pledge, has a birthday, or a tree in their house at Christmas, let me make it perfectly clear, NOBODY I know 'worships' these items. Does the wt forget how political Daniel was? The Jews were also a nation. Paul even used his political status to escape the crowds

  Does does having loyalty to your country mean you have less for God? How so? You mean you are only allotted so much loyalty and once it's used up on God there is none left to go elsewhere? Well, yeah, that sounds alot like jw's version of love, limited.

  Everyone is sure pleased when they are able to take advantage of some sort of government agency or program. They use that without it 'bothering their conscience'. Even your freedom of speech. You have the right to trash whoever you like even in a public venue. Try that in a middle east country! I know a number of US soldiers who would fight to the death for your right to do that even though they disagree with what you say. The soldiers and vets I know act more Christ like than any jw I have ever seen. They give back to the community in which they live, they volunteer, organize food drives, help third world countries, collect school items for third world countries, etc... etc... I see so many people bitching about anything from world affairs to local problems yet do nothing themselves to change the situation. Even writing a letter is too much work. Have you no sense of responsibility to the community in which you live? If not then quit bitching about things in which you can make a difference.

  As a Christian I will continue to salute the flag, say the pledge and stand when the vets come by in a parade and place my hand over my heart. Does this take anything away from God? no. Usually it makes me thankful to God that I live in the country I do, the one that so many are STILL trying to sneak into, the country of freedoms and opportunities. The opportunities that we Americans take for granted, the pursuit of happiness we forget is just that a 'pursuit' not a given, not given by the government. Something we need to take personal responsibility for. Personal responsiblity seems lacking in dubland.
• 

  truthsetsonefree

  This is an interesting hypocrisy on their part. Go to the songbook, the song Displaying Loyalty and you will find that JWs pledge allegiance...TO THE ORGANIZATION! Steadfastly no less.
• 

  M.J.

  M.J., I was not speaking to Agnostics like you, I was speaking to Christains! :) Jesus did set an example, one that I guess you are not willing to follow. Do not deceive yourself into thinking that the road is broad and spacious! Spend your time on earth monitoring the scores of sports teams like Notre Dame, and you will be judged accordingly.

  Your categorization and judgment of me is off the mark. But this discussion is not about me anyway.
• 

  M.J.

  Go to the songbook, the song Displaying Loyalty and you will find that JWs pledge allegiance...TO THE ORGANIZATION! Steadfastly no less.

  Thank you for that info!
• 

  Simon

  But two years ago my father passed away. When he died, he had absolutely nothing. No money in the house, no savings, no insurance - nothing. It was a bad time all the way around for me as well. My husband had lost his job following 9-11 and we were struggling financially. Struggling like I had to borrow money to get to his state and try to make his arrangements. Anyway, I didn't know his situation until I got there and I'm sure you can imagine my surprise when the reality hit me. I had no money to bury him, etc. In the middle of my panic, I discovered that as a Vet, he had burial rights. The government stepped in and handled everything ! He had a beautiful ceremony, at a national cementary, complete with a 21 gun salute! I will NEVER forget that and whatever ambivilence I felt towards the goverment dissolved with their treatment of my father.

  They folded his flag and placed it in my hands and I plan to display that flag (in a a commemorative box) in my living room forever.

  I'm glad you value that.

  I prefer the European approach though where care and effort is put into supporting people while they are still alive and not providing tokens when they die.

  There isnothing inherantly wrong with patriotism, the flag or pledge of aliegence. What is wrong is when it becomes forced and turns into nationalism.

  People should be free to not support the countries actions, not respect the flag because of the authority that it represents (which carries out the actions) or pledge alliegance to something they do not agree with.