What does it really mean? "To be, "no part of the world?"

by acadian 23 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  acadian

  What does it really mean? "To be, "no part of the world?"

  After comparing Romans 13:1-7 , John 15: 18-21, James 4:4, what do you think it means to be "no part of the world"?

  Let's say Paul was telling the Church at Romans 13: 1-7, "Be subject to the secular government," which at that time was the Roman Empire. And he was also saying, "Rome is not a terror to good works, but to the evil. The Roman centurion does not swing his sword in vain. Therefore, do good and you shall have praise of the same."

  I pose only one question, Why was Paul beheaded by a Roman Centurion if he was preaching, "Be subject to Rome"?

  The Roman government would have no cause to behead him. He was one of their best spokesmen, telling new converts to obey Rome, and be in subjection to their authority.

  On the other hand, if Paul was beheaded because he was an "evildoer," why is an "evildoer" writing in the Bible?

  Here are the scriptures to compare:

  (Romans 13:1-7) 13 Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God. 2 Therefore he who opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will receive judgment to themselves. 3 For those ruling are an object of fear, not to the good deed, but to the bad. Do you, then, want to have no fear of the authority? Keep doing good, and you will have praise from it; 4 for it is God’s minister to you for your good. But if you are doing what is bad, be in fear: for it is not without purpose that it bears the sword; for it is God’s minister, an avenger to express wrath upon the one practicing what is bad. 5 There is therefore compelling reason for YOU people to be in subjection, not only on account of that wrath but also on account of [YOUR] conscience. 6 For that is why YOU are also paying taxes; for they are God’s public servants constantly serving this very purpose. UP 7 Render to all their dues, to him who [calls for] the tax, the tax; to him who [calls for] the tribute, the tribute; to him who [calls for] fear, such fear; to him who [calls for] honor, such honor. (NWT) Romans 13:1-7 1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor. (NKJV)

  (John 15:18-21) 18 If the world hates YOU, YOU know that it has hated me before it hated YOU. 19 If YOU were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because YOU are no part of the world, but I have chosen YOU out of the world, on this account the world hates YOU. 20 Bear in mind the word I said to YOU, A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will persecute YOU also; if they have observed my word, they will observe YOURS also. 21 But they will do all these things against YOU on account of my name, because they do not know him that sent me. . . (NWT)

  (John 15:18-21) "If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. 20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also. 21 But all these things they will do to you for My name’s sake, because they do not know Him who sent Me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 He who hates Me hates My Father also. 24 If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would have no sin; but now they have seen and also hated both Me and My Father. 25 But this happened that the word might be fulfilled which is written in their law, ‘They hated Me without a cause.'
  (New King James Version)

  (James 4:4) 4 Adulteresses, do YOU not know that the friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God.. . . (NWT)

  So after comparing these scriptures what do you think it means to be "no part of the world"?

  Is there a conflict between Romans 13 and the other scriptures?

  I would like to understand what Romans 13 really means, to me, there seems to be a conflict.

  Any thoughts would help!

  Peace
  Acadian
• 

  lovelylil

  Hi,

  I don't believe there is a conflict between these scriptures. The only way it will conflict is if you follow the WT interpretation of Romans that it means you cannot join the military. There are different things these scriptures are pertaining to. For instance in Romans it is talking about being in subjection to the superior authorities. This is clearly showing that the bible is not against military service. There are lands were men are compelled to join the military by the government and this scripture says to be in subjection to them so as not to incur a penalty. By joining the military you are not considered a friend of the world as this statement has to do with our spirituality - not military service.

  The scripture in John that speaks about being no part of the world is speaking in spiritual terms. Also the persecution received by followers of Christ is for being no part of the worlds false religions. (not other christian faiths but ones that worship other Gods) The WT uses the term "no part of the world" to be a blanket statement that covers a wide variety of things including joining the military, celebrating holidays, having friends who are not witnesses, etc.

  But the biblical view is simply in a spiritual sense and this is shown very clearly by James 4:4 Here it speaks about spiritual adultery as it calls those who are friends with the world "adulterous people". Why this term? To show that "friends with the world" means commiting spiritual adultery and nothing else. You commit spiritual adultery by worshiping another God. For you cannot take this term "adulterous" in this text to mean in a literal sense. Whenever Gods people strayed spiritually it was likened to adultery. (see Exodus 34:15)

  So no part of the world - means not committing spiritual adultery with those who are not Christian. It has nothing to do with military service at all. And I don't believe there is a conflict as these scriptures speak about different issues. Lilly
• 

  acadian

  Hi Lovelylil,and thanks for your comment. I have a problem with the military thing, how do you love your neighbor and kill them at the same time? Or what about the command "Do not kill" in the 10 commandments? I can see defending yourself, but not following blindly some leader in war. And do the leaders tell us the truth as why were going to war? Not usually. Wasn't Hitler by scriptural terms consider a superior authority? would it be obeying God, to obey Hitler? I'm sure I'm not seeing something. And why would Rome kill Paul for promoting subjection to Rome? And those Christians who didn't burn incence according to Roman law, were they disobeying God, because they weren't following the law of Rome the superior authority? Acadian
• 

  lovelylil

  Acadian,

  I agree with you on the war thing. I was simply speaking about what I believe the scripture to be saying. I would not personally go to war either. But we have to face facts that in the world we live in - we have war and we do need people to defend and protect our country. I do not believe that God is anti-war as according to the bible, he himself supported more than a few. We do not live in a perfect society and my heart goes out to those innocents who die in wars - especially woman and children. But I don't go as far as to picket and speak against those in the military because there is a need for them to do what they do. But in a perfect world there would be no wars or killing and that would be great by me.

  As far as Paul - he was killed because he was a Christian and not because he was anti Roman government. Those who apposed the early Christians lied to the Romans and said the Christians were against them but they were not. The Romans thought they may overthrow the government which would not have happened. But you have to understand their views at that time. Also in that time many did worship the Roman leaders who thought of themselves as Gods. This would be in violation of Christian law to worship only God. Unfortunately many early christians were put to death for deciding not to worship Roman leaders. But Paul did say if someone (in governemnt) compels you to walk a mile with him to walk two miles. I do not believe that the early Christians did not participate in any secular programs that were supported by the government or would not do other service for the goverment besides military.

  Also we have Cornelius who was baptised as a soldier and we have examples of those in the OT who were in some way connected to the government or military. Jospeh had a government job, we have Queen Esther married to a non-believing King. Again, being no part of the world is nowhere shown in the bible that it has anything to do with military service. But I agree that many Christians decide that their conscience would preclude them from joining. My hubby left the military because he had a change of heart when he became a Christian.

  But biblically, there are two different issues that were raised by the texts you cited. Maybe someone else out there can add some thought on this matter. Lilly
• 

  gumby

  Jesus said, "the world is fond of what is it's own, but you are no part of the world because I have taken you out of the world".

  Jesus adopted them as heavenly sons and so their kinship was not of a carnal "worldy" source any longer but was to be a heavenly kinship in another world ( the heavens).......which was WHY they were to be no part of a world that's divided from him....one being earthly and of "the world" and the other one heavenly, not from this world. Gumby 8:15-22

  The other reason is.....Paul was a gnostic christian and the gospel account was from a literlist christian. Gnostic christians were more into "the superior" authorities than were the pious literalist christians ( gospels).....hence the epistles(letters) spoke more pro government/military.

  Gumgnostic
• 

  acadian

  I wonder what Jesus would do if he was consripted in the Roman army...? Thanks again Lovelylil, I appreciate your thoughts! Acadian
• 

  gumby

  
  Jesus wouldn't go in the Army because thast isn't was he was sent for. He had 3 years since his baptism to accomplish what he came for.....so he couldn't have went to Iraq to fight. If they woulda drafted him when he was 18....they wouldn't have been able to find him cuz his life is a mystery from the age of 12 to 29.....so he mighta been hidin out and waitin till his entry time arrived somewheres.

  Gumgijoe
• 

  acadian

  Hey Gumby, nice to here from you! Now was that from the revised edition? lol

  Jesus adopted them as heavenly sons and so their kinship was not of a carnal "worldy" source any longer but was to be a heavenly kinship in another world ( the heavens).......which was WHY they were to be no part of a world that's divided from him....one being earthly and of "the world" and the other one heavenly, not from this world. Gumby 8:15-22

  I'm thinking on the line of two governments (Heavnly and Worldly), and that you can't serve two masters. Good to here from you gumby, hey check out OFG's post about Reggae on the River, he's took some nice pic's. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/119678/1.ashx Acadian
• 

  gumby

  Good to hear from you too bro.

  ....and don't forget about that Cornelius dude in the bible. He had an army off 100 or more and Jesus liked the guy. He mighta told him later on in private ( so it wasn't recorded by someone), that he oughta find a different occupation though....who knows. Jesus wasn't one for making a person denounce their sin before he helped em out and taught them right.

  Me...I'd never go to war. I'm too chicken, I don't like killin people, and I don't like other people killin people.

  Gumscardycat
• 

  acadian

  Thats right, its a mystery. Acadian of the I can't sepll class here = hear