by AhHah 54 Replies latest jw friends
Hi AhHah, and RedhorseWoman,
Thanks for the replies.
All I can say to the information and facts you both refer to, is just because an organization claims to be of God, that is no guarantee of total perfection and that everything is 'honky-dorry'.
As for my username, 'sandgroper' is a term given to anyone who lives in Western Austrlia, especially Perth, by people in other states of Australia. There is lots of sand here, not much soil.
Agape.
SandGroper,
No arguments there!
BTW, if you are interested, there is a thread entitled "Do you believe ...". It is a rather basic survey of beliefs of those who post on this forum. You may enjoy reading the responses and consider posting yours.
Glad to have you with us!
Hi Sandgroper
I think it's a good point that you make.
I read a good article somewhere about how mass shootings were a byproduct of western christian philosophy. It was something to do with the fact that you couldn't teach that God *wanted* a lot of people to die and then not expect some people to actually go ahead and do it. The fact that they then condemn such killings causes conflict in their message. Something like that. I'll try and find it, it made more sense than I do !
Hey Sandgroper,
Nice to meet you. I was raised in a terrible house of violence, rape, etc, which just happened to be Irish Catholic. As one might suspect, depression, amongst other things, was/is a byproduct of this upbringing.
When 18, I met a "fallen away" jw, we dated, I started studying. I believed in hellfire - was assured I was going there - so therefore I really listened when the pioneer I studied with showed me from the Bible that there is no burning hell.
When I came into the organization, I brought my childhood experiences with me - I just didn't remember them. I still reacted to them in life, however. Years, off & on, of anti-depressants, my jw ministerial husband using and selling drugs, my child being raped by a ministerial servant who was raping his own daughter.......
Sounds pretty obscene, doesn't it? Yet that is the life of many persons whether jw's or not.
I agree with you fully - I personally don't think the WTBTS is responsible for all mental health problems among the jw's. This is as odd to say as a jw saying all bad things that happen to them are brought on by Satan. Swinging wide to the Left or to the Right. The truth of the matter probably swings much more to the center.
I do strongly believe that the teachings of the WTBTS are tailor-made for someone like me - new parents, new home, not remembering the bad things that have happened in the past......perfect paradise. And I'd lose those pesky extra pounds, btw.
Did the WTBTS cause my mental/emotional problems? No. Did they help? In some ways - I found security and lost the fear of hellfire. The people, in general, were much more ok than my parents. Well, until my daughter was raped, anyway. An "isolated raping"? Perhaps, but no more isolated than my father. My father used my mother as a cover to be an average family - the neighbors thought we were an ok family. After writing the WTBTS, they sent our CO with PO to visit me to encourage me to remain quiet (I had already reported raping to the police) within the congregation. Wouldn't be upbuilding for the brothers, my neighbors. Nothing happened to the rapist, btw, even though my daughter (through me) and his own daughter (in writing) were witness against him. so, my father and the jw rapist found acceptable people to cover for them - so they could continue raping with an acceptable reputation.
But I agree with you, the WTBTS does not cause all mental problems. However, the WTBTS does aggravate emotions and mentalities with their negativity, fear, etc. Thus, persons who are prone to these problems, tend to develop these problems more readily.
I used the same wording as you, "be gentle" the first time I posted on H20. They were.
waiting
Hi there waiting.
I am so sorry to read of the sexual abuse your daughter recieved from within the WTS.
If those things weren't bad enough, the cover-up by those that should have been there for you, and her, is totaly unexcusable.
If it is of any consolation, the Bible tells us that God will repay evil-doers for the evil that they do.
It is good to see, that even because of your experience with some within the WTS, you don't condemn the whole organization as being the same.
Kindest regards,
Sandgroper.
Hey Sandgroper,
I read & post on H20 sometimes. Englishman, about a week ago, posted about a friend of his having problems. The gist was: friend was df'd about 20 yrs ago. Nothing too messy. He got on with his life, remarried, had children, active in community, etc. About 2 yrs. ago, he developed the unsatiable need to confess (his wife was alarmed - as the confessions amounted to speeding 5 mi. over speed limit, etc.). Then he developed need to "save" his children through baptism - at another church. Then he decided to become a jw again. His wife was quite confused, she didn't even know he used to be a jw. He did start seeing a professional counselor about his problems.
All persons who had responded until the time I read this post, said it was all the WTBTS fault. "Conditioning, negativity, fear, guilt, etc." Nothing about the positiveness of counseling nor the chance of a mental/emotional disorder. I thought that oddly curious.
I then posted my opinion. I was glad he was going to a counselor. The man, imho, has a mental/emotional problem. His strong need to confess is a dead giveaway. His need to save his children (no matter which religion)is another giveaway. His going back to his roots trying to find stability, mental ease, would be natural. What does he know? Jehovah's Witnesses.
That does not make Jehovah's Witnesses his complete problem. However, they could be part of his problem, or his "zero-in" point.
I find that the WTBTS and particularily local jw's, reasoning that Satan and his demons are everywhere causing us all our woes just as unreasonable as persons-who-leave the WTBTS blaming the WTBTS for all our woes. Neither is true.
A lot of people who leave the WTBTS are the exact same people who used to be in the WTBTS - they just drink coffee and think on Sunday morning.
Good to meet you - hope you come back.
waiting
It was stated "Jerry Bergman sometimes comes across much more as a disgruntled x-jw, rather than a professional... Jerry Bergman is a highly opinionated professional." Could someone give evidence of this? A common complaint I get is I am still a Watchtower apologists and therefor not objective. How can I be both? Could we conclude most people who leave the WT were happy as Witnesses or do many have some valid concern that motivated them to leave? Is it valid to talk to others or write about your concern? If so, are you an disgruntled x-JW? Is this tern not pure name calling? Another question: has anyone out there ever faced Watchtower attorneys in court? What do you think of their tactics?
As to the following If he can't do that, he should write under another name when expressing his deep anger towards the Society (like me as in "waiting" and you in "AhHaH." Then his professional work would be professionally detached and his anger could vent in private work. Could you give an example??? Do you think professionals should sugar coat information? Or should they lie? It is my opinion that this statement reflects the WT Society's hatred of apostates (we are dogs that have returned to its vomit). I once wrote under another name, and have been roundly condemned for doing so by friend and foe alike (many writers do so but if you can not find anything valid to criticize, you need to resort to anything you can). Please no more name calling! I need criticism but constructive criticism!
Again examples, not name calling?? This is the impression that I got as well. I don't find him to be objective and I find his statements to be somewhat extreme and perhaps inaccurate I usually send my work out to several of the most informed Ex Witnesses that I know so the results are not my work alone but that of a team of persons. If you have an example of the above, I would be very interested so I can find out the truth of the matter. Or if you would like to be a reviewer I would be glad to send you my work before it is published. Also, the journal will send the article out to 3 or 4 people so by the time it is published it has been read by 5 to 8 persons who are deemed experts in the field. This is no guarantee of a perfect article but at least a generally good one. So PLEASE give FEEDBACK that is of use, not general statements that are unsupported! Thanks
True " just because someone has letters after their name, doesn't mean they are right or entirely accurate about what they say" but it does not mean they are automatically wrong either. You would not believe how much mocking one gets because they have letters after one's name. For this reason I often do not use those letters, especially among ex-witnesses (but journals and publishes often do because some people do respect the hard work that goes into a degree).
