What's the official JW Spin on Rev.19:1

by PopeOfEruke 27 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Death to the Pixies

  Why would John use the term "great crowd" only 3 times referring to a group in heaven or in the temple, but yet you say he is referring to different great crowds?

  The term is too specific in my opinion, and used so Sparingly by John, I cannot believe John is referring to different great crowds. We have a plethora of great crowds.

  Pope

  I guess I just disagree with "specific"-ness of of the term "great crowd". AT Robertson sees this "great crowd" in Rev 19:1 as the angels: "

  Often when a turn comes in this book. But Beckwith is probably correct in seeing in

  Rev_19:1-5 the climax of chapter Rev 18. This first voice ( Rev_19:1 , Rev_19:2 ) ho¯s pho¯ne¯n megale¯n ouchlou pollou (as it were great voice of much multitude) is probably the response of the angelic host ( Rev_5:11 ; Heb_12:22 ). There is responsive singing (grand chorus) as in chapters Rev_4:1-11 ; Rev_5:1-14 ."

  I think this shows that Jws are not pleading here, as Robertson, a non-Jw with no ties to the Jw theology of the great corwd in Rev 7, see-s it as angels.
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  AuldSoul

  The whole point is, the identity of any "great crowd" in Revelation is 100% intepretation. Interpretation is going to be wrong most of the time, especially from an organization taht claims they have no divine revelations cluing them in to the meanings.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
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  kerj2leev

  This is obviously another form of brainwashing, say something over and over again, then people start to believe it. It's "a great crowd" in the bible, but by saying "the great crowd" this makes it a specific group(earthly destiny) like the Tower wants you to believe. This doesn't jive with what the bible says, but its, tow the line for all the followers of the organization.

  My personal thinking is that this is the same great crowd mentioned earlier in Rev. This is a group of people who put their faith in Christ during the Great Tribulation as they "come out of it" not go through it(another play on words from the Tower). So yes I think the great crowd is in heaven as the bible says, which is actually the way the Tower taught before the "New Light"(oh boy were growing way beyond 144,000 we need to change something!)

  I have always wonder the tie between the "other sheep" and "great crowd", how these 2 are link biblically? Other sheep 1st century Gentiles??

  As a side note I remember one CO saying that if people say we are brainwashed then you could say"Well, my brain needed washing"! Scary thought!!!
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  blondie

  Just reporting, not supporting. Here is the only explanation I can find about Rev 19:1 and "the great crowd"

  *** Reasoning from the Scriptures p. 167 - p. 168 Heaven ***

  Do

  those of the "great crowd" referred to at Revelation 7:9, 10 also go to heaven?

  Revelation does not say of them, as it does of the 144,000, that they are "bought from the earth" to be with Christ on heavenly Mount Zion.—Rev. 14:1-3.

  The description of them as "standing before the throne and before the Lamb" indicates, not necessarily a location, but an approved condition. (Compare Revelation 6:17; Luke 21:36.) The expression "before the throne" (Greek, e·no´pi·on tou thro´nou; literally, "in sight of the throne") does not require that they be in heaven. Their position is simply "in sight" of God, who tells us that from heaven he beholds the sons of men.—Ps. 11:4; compare Matthew 25:31-33; Luke 1:74, 75; Acts 10:33.

  The "great crowd in heaven" referred to at Revelation 19:1, 6 is not the same as the "great crowd" of Revelation 7:9. The ones in heaven are not described as being "out of all nations" or as ascribing their salvation to the Lamb; they are angels. The expression "great crowd" is used in a variety of contexts in the Bible.—Mark 5:24; 6:34; 12:37.
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  PopeOfEruke

  I still think it stinks they leave it out of the Appendix. the term "great crowd" occurs 4 or 5 times altogether in the whole Bible, and the ONE INSTANCE which conflicts with JW theology, they drop from the cross-reference.

  Cheats!

  Pope
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  Kenneson

  Who are the 24 elders and four living creatures of verse 4 supposed to be and where are they? Are they angels too?
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  Honesty

  Obviously another example of the leadership trying to keep the R & F in the dark, but how do they spin this for JW's who do investigate the Bible a bit deeper? Pope

  They usually lose us because once we get Rev. 19:1 figured out we have also figured out the 'Faithful Slave' is full of manure.
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  PopeOfEruke

  Honesty

  you sure got that right!

  Pope