for atheists/agnostics (page 3)

Madame Quixote

God doesn't need a "witness" for or against him, if he is all that most religious people claim. And there seems to be a lot of witnessing about it all over the world, so, he must not really be "all that." You know, a god with almighty knowledge, power and such.

Religious people I know usually say they believe that evil exists, too, while at the same time making the completely illogical claim that god is:

- omniscient
- all-loving AND
- all-powerful.

From a strictly logical standpoint, one of those criteria for belief in god's existence has to be a lie, if evil really does exist. Hence, I certainly can't accept the existence of such a god, nor of any god, except in the fairytale lands of metaphysics (and leprechauns).

Seeker4

Yeah, Madame Q, God certainly seems like an awfully needy entity, considering he's supposed to be so complete with himself. One of the first things that struck me about the Jewish/Christian concept of God, once I began to rationally examine it, is why would such a god have any need for worshippers?

The fact that this god demands worship, and will kill you if you don't exclusively worship him, immediately makes old Jehovah very suspect indeed. These are not the actions of a god, but rather of an insecure human.

S4

Madame Quixote

Yes, an insecure 4-yr-old human. "I won't be your friend if you don't ..."

I hope this thread keeps growing,btw. Maybe we atheist xjws could get our own little section here.

Swan

The fact that this god demands worship, and will kill you if you don't exclusively worship him, immediately makes old Jehovah very suspect indeed.

Yeah, I noticed that too. Not only does he require worship, but it has to be a specific way wearing certain clothes by only select priests. Also, beyond worship, he demands love and blind faith. He's very needy of our attention. If people don't worship him, he gets petulant and lets marauders invade the land and kill men, women, and children. He plays favorites. And for a spirit creature, he is awfully preoccupied with human sexuality and the aroma of burning meat and fat upon an altar. I like the smell of BBQ too, but he seems obsessed with it.

The more I read about him, the more I realize that he is a fictional character in a badly written book with little or no consistency in how he is portrayed between different authors.

Tammy

Madame Quixote

What Swan said bears repeating. It's hilarious: "And for a spirit creature, he is awfully preoccupied with human sexuality and the aroma of burning meat and fat upon an altar." I wonder if he also attends weight watchers mtgs?

IP_SEC

My atheism started when I first took a good look at the reliability of the Bible and realized, as someone mentioned, that it's a collection of myth and history and whatever, but certainly not inspired of God.

Amen brother S4. Im not an atheist just because I dont think it is possible to prove there is not a god. (perhaps I misunderstand what an atheist is?) I dont think you can prove something doesnt exist. I dont believe in pink flying unicorns but without all knowledge of everything in the universe I cant prove they dont exist, however unlikely.

I do think it would be an unbelievably bad stroke of luck for humanity if the god of the bible, or any other holy book does exist.

Blueblades

Silence is arguable.

Blueblades

DanTheMan

The ontological argument is a favorite of believers, and understandably so, because the argument basically states that it is impossible to say that you don't believe in God, because to even debate the matter is to imply that God exists. Which I find preposterous.

I can't believe in something that can't be defined with any sort of clarity, and the ontological argument is as muddy and nonsensical as a definition could be.

saki2fifty

No, I'm not Athiest or Agnostic, but rather a believer in God. A believer in the God that you once served.. Jehovah. I personally cannot grasp the concept of or even want to grasp the concept of their not being a God. Yes, I personally dont find the meetings all that exciting, but for me what keeps me going in life itself, is knowing there is hope. Hope for a better life. I will now fight to my death in defense of not just growing old, dying and thats it. I want what "Jehovah" promises. I want that paradise. I want my kids to grow up in that fantasy world as you all now see it. Just looking up into the sky on a dark night, showing my kids the absolute beauty of the heavens... real beauty... and all from nothing? I know, its much more complicated than I would like to believe... but that hope of a better life is what I'm living for.

Swan

No, I'm not Athiest or Agnostic, but rather a believer in God. A believer in the God that you once served.. Jehovah. I personally cannot grasp the concept of or even want to grasp the concept of their not being a God. Yes, I personally dont find the meetings all that exciting, but for me what keeps me going in life itself, is knowing there is hope. Hope for a better life. I will now fight to my death in defense of not just growing old, dying and thats it. I want what "Jehovah" promises. I want that paradise. I want my kids to grow up in that fantasy world as you all now see it. Just looking up into the sky on a dark night, showing my kids the absolute beauty of the heavens... real beauty... and all from nothing? I know, its much more complicated than I would like to believe... but that hope of a better life is what I'm living for.

Saki2Fifty,

I think you are missing the point. You assume that an Atheist or Agnostic has no hope, has no appreciation of the beauty of the universe, or doesn't care about a better life for their kids.

You can have all of those things and still not believe in God. You can have morals, ethics, dreams, and hopes and still not have to believe in God. You can wonder at the beauty of the universe, and be profoundly moved by it. You can be deeply spiritual. In some ways, you feel those things even deeper, because you realize that life is very precious, and fleeting, so you live your life to the fullest, and to do your best to leave a legacy for generations to come. Life becomes valuable because you know there is not going to be some divine being popping in to save your butt at the last minute. It's all up to you, and that challenge is what makes life worth living.

Tammy

for atheists/agnostics

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