thirdwitness—Can you Scripturally support JW dogma?

by AuldSoul 47 Replies latest jw friends

  • fleaman uk
    fleaman uk

    You have been restricted to 5 posts and no threads. You will be advised to use your posts to deal with the concerns raised.

    Hmm thought i had heard the last of nonsense like this ages ago.

    Seems to me,everyone is after this 3rd witness bloke wanting him to respond to this that and the other because hes a pro-Jw yet the nuttier elements of this site can spew their hateful trash and receive many plaudits !Im especially thinking of one Man on here whose own website is regularly praised and is allowed to (what i would consider)spam the board with what can only be described as incitement.

    The majority of us are pleased to be out the whacky religion...god knows i am!But doesnt there have to be some balance when dealing with ALL People on here?

  • carla
    carla

    AuldSoul, can I ship my husband to you for deprogramming? He will arrive in a UPS box shortly!

  • avengers
    avengers
    yet the nuttier elements of this site can spew their hateful trash

    let me be even nuttier.

    Instead of the Two witless rule, lets make it a Three witless rule. This way we can have some more fun with the children.
    The Watchtower never signed up as NGO with DPI.
    The Watchtower never had shares in the military.
    They never got fined for poluting their own property.
    They never changed the blood issue.
    The Watchtower has always spoken the truth.

    come, watch.

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    fleaman uk:

    G'day mate!

    You have been restricted to 5 posts and no threads. You will be advised to use your posts to deal with the concerns raised .

    Hmm thought i had heard the last of nonsense like this ages ago.

    Seems to me,everyone is after this 3rd witness bloke wanting him to respond to this that and the other because hes a pro-Jw yet the nuttier elements of this site can spew their hateful trash and receive many plaudits !Im especially thinking of one Man on here whose own website is regularly praised and is allowed to (what i would consider)spam the board with what can only be described as incitement.

    I think you may not have been following all the postings of 3W. What is wrong with enforcing rules? Are you saying that being free of the Borg means to be free of all restraint? Surely not. Hitting the restriction button is not something I relish but Simon makes it available for situations where it clearly is needed. Anyway, I think I must emphasise that there has been no move to restrict 3W's freedom of speech. The actions taken were done to deal with his actions here on JWD that were proving a disruption to its normal interactions.

    Let me recap. 3W has only been registered a matter of a few weeks. In that time he/she has clearly had a strategy of disruption. He/she worked through a number of issues that were clearly inflammatory. How? He used his own website as a vehicle to be publicised an in which he invited discussion. This, of course, was forthcoming, yet he either avoided responses or, as is the case with the instruction to BOE re not reporting, he maintained that lies were in fact the truth. He turned truth on its end.

    If you check his posting history you will see that he (or she) maintained a very active and visible presence on JWD, so at that stage there was no evidence of restraining his speech.

    Let me say that we read umpteen messages about his postings, some posters wanting him removed, others appealing for him to be allowed to stay. However, the 'last straw' was when he started a new thread totally misrepresenting the history of discussions up to date and then introducing his next inflammatory topic - a defense of the WT's actions in the Vicki Boer case. This was always going to incite many - it was designed to do so. So I acted to restrict his posting to nil threads and five posts per day. We didn't want him to be able to introduce more of the same while at the same time leaving other threads hanging in mid-air - I don't believe it was in the interests of the smooth running of JWD to allow him unrestrained to publicise opinions that are most hurtfull to many reading on JWD.

    I will agree with you however that it was hard to keep up with the questions he was supposed to answer. It's still going on here on this thread, isn't it?. I can't see it's humanly possible to keep up with all the questions!

  • fleaman uk
    fleaman uk

    I think you may not have been following all the postings of 3W. What is wrong with enforcing rules? Are you saying that being free of the Borg means to be free of all restraint? Surely not.

    g,day back at ya ozziepost.

    Of course i dont think we should be free of restraint.Far from it.This board is the only one ive come across that offers sensible,practical advice for newly exited,fading or even active JW,s..i just think that if we stopped and thought about what certain anti-jw,s come up with on this site then certain restraints should be put on them too!The paranoid and sometimes violent ramblings of certain "whistle blowers"and activists are as repulsive imho ,as the nasty and untrue words and actions of people such as 3W.

  • done4good
    done4good

    As much as we would like to see 3W attempt to make an argument, he won't. He seems to have an agenda of using a few specific topics that he can make some type of interperative argument for. This fits in with the theory that he may be some Bethel insider attempting to "disprove" certain ex-jw "themes", (such as the UN and 607), if you will. Obviously, he can never prove any jw dogma, as it is IMPOSSIBLE to do so. One just has to be assimulated to accept it. I, for one, don't necessarily believe he is some Bethel insider, (just not their way of doing things, and they can't be THAT ignorant to think they can somehow win those type of arguments), but IF he is, I would suspect he will go away shortly, as his attempts to justify the WT position have utterly failed.

    j

  • drew sagan
    drew sagan

    I highly doubt 3W will actually jump into a debate about the Bible. It would actually be refreshing to have JWs come on the board and discuss the real issues that make up their core belief system. How can they honestly defend putting the name Jehovah in the NT? How can they defend their position in the door to door work as completely 'nessecary' from every single christian to preach via that method? How can the defend blood transfusions? How can they defend their two class system of Christians? How can they defend their absurd interpretation of Daniel, Revelation, and Ezekiel?

    Getting into the heart of their teachings is way over their head. I would love to see them come and discuss it, but it shall never happen. They rather talk about issues where conjecture rules all.

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul
    drew sagan: How can they honestly defend putting the name Jehovah in the NT?

    drew,

    You will find their "defense", such as it is, in two places which only actually comprise a "defense" when combined. The first part of the puzzle is in Appendix 1D of the NWT Reference Bible. They list all "237 places where the name Jehovah occurs in the main text of the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures." These "renderings" (which really cannot be classed as renderings at all, since no actual translation of the Greek occurred) are based on various sources classed as "J" references.

    These "J" references are from "translations" from Greek into Hebrew spanning many years. But even in these cases, it is patently clear that the Hebrew from Greek was mistranslated if the name YHWH was inserted into the Hebrew, as it could not possibly have appeared in the Greek from which translation was supposedly occurring. For myself, this argument logically nullifies any appeal to the authority of the "J" references on this point.

    However, there is a further nullification line of reasoning. In the Introduction of the Rbi8-E (the NWT Reference Bible) we find the Bbliography for the "J" references. Herein, we discover that the oldest "J" reference used as an authority is J2 and is dated to 1385. This is many years into what the WTS calls the "Great Apostasy", but according to them, the plainly incorrect translation from Greek into Hebrew completed in the year 1385 should be used as an authority for imitating the mistranslation. This is completely illogical on many levels.

    Closer examination of Appendix 1D reveals that manuscripts J1, J2, and J4 are ONLY used with Matthew. J3 is ONLY used with Matthew and Hebrews. J5 and J6 are ONLY used with Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

    Which leaves only ONE "J" reference as primary support for most of the remaining mistranslations. J7, Christian Greek Scriptures in 12 languages, including Heb., by Elias Hutter, Nuremburg, 1599. I say "most of the remaining" because sole reference for some of these instances comes from "translation" work done in the 1800s.

    In the case of Colossians 3:13, the mistranslation is supported solely by J23, a work published in 1975 (the year the world should have ended, again). In Colossians 3:22, the support for the mistranslation comes from J18 (1981) and J22 (1942). Colossians 3:9 is supported by J18 (1981) and J23 (1975).

    Ephesians 6:8 is supported only by J22 (1942) and J24 (1863).

    By far the majority of mistranslations have no older support than J7 (1599), which itself, in turn, served as an authority for the translators of most (if not all) of the other "translations" into Hebrew.

    There is no logical defense for the WTS' position on this blatant mistranslation of Greek into English. Especially in the case of 1 Corinthians 7:17, where they admittedly served as their own authority in deciding to mistranslate the Greek text into English (see Appendix 1D). But, there is an illogical defense. As usual.

    Another example of an illogical defense is the "it only makes sense" defense we saw in this thread in favor of JW prebaptismal requirements. It doesn't "only make sense", it also directly contradicts what the Bible says. Which means, they created rules that are not only unsupported by the Bible, but which the Bible flatly rejects. Not simply by omission, but by plainly stating the extent of the requirements for baptism on direct questioning.

    Respectfully,
    AuldSoul

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit