An Invitation To ThirdWitness & Scholar - strengthen their faith.

by hillary_step 25 Replies latest jw friends

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Arthur,

    I think it's time that we quit treating these two posters as if they have any relevance.

    I disagree vigourously. I believe that these debates are arguably the most important threads that take place on this discussion board. These debates are very seldom for the benefit of those involved. There are many active JW's who read this Board and who are imprisoned by ideologies that are both dangerous and soul-destroying and such debates allow them in the peace of their own minds to see another side of the coin.

    The effect of this can be evidenced by the many people who subscribe to this Board each month and pay homage to the fact that not only have they been reading this board for a long while but that these sorts of debates have benefited them.

    So try to see the bigger picture here. We are quite well aware that both Scholar and ThirdWitness are entrenched in their cultic suits of armor and unlikely to change their views about the WTS, but it is not for their benefit that we involve ourselves in them, and certainly not for the joy of the argument.

    Best regards - HS

    PS - Apologies with the formatting issues.

  • GetBusyLiving
    GetBusyLiving

    I completely agree with you hillary_step. These seemingly boring-ass discussions helped me when I was first leaving the Watchtower. You guys are in the trenches helping lurkers find out the real truth.

    GBL

  • Arthur
    Arthur
    There are many active JW's who read this Board and who are imprisoned by ideologies that are both dangerous and soul-destroying and such debates allow them in the peace of their own minds to see another side of the coin.

    Yeah, I do see your point. I just seriously doubt that they really are devout JWs as they claim; but I guess that is a trivial side issue anyway. I probably did fail to see the entire big picture.

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Amazing,

    Thank you for that background. I know that one of the most frightening discoveries for most emerging JW's is to realize how tenous and arbitary is the history of how the Bible reached us, it certainly bought me no pleasure at all.

    As it is, I have no issue with the Bible as a book of spirituality. I believe that the Sermons on the Mount, especially the beattitudes collectively contain one of the most beautiful expressions of human social interation that exist. Of course all Holy books, contain passages of such poetic beauty, but I believe that the expressions of 'agape' love are quite unique to the Bible. What cannot be accepted is that the Bible has unimpeachable value outside of a spiritual domain, for example, in the realms of chronology, science and history. It does not.

    As such, reliance on Biblical chronology in favor of secular history is not a matter of faith, it is a matter of ignorance.

    HS

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex
    There are many active JW's who read this Board and who are imprisoned by ideologies that are both dangerous and soul-destroying and such debates allow them in the peace of their own minds to see another side of the coin.

    I would like to add just a small point.

    When I was in the process of leaving, and I first began to dare to question, I used to have tremendous arguments with myself. I remember reading Watchtower articles, scriptures, et al. to 'prove' that nagging little voice in my head wrong. But the more I dug, the mre I could not defeat those questions. In point of fact, those questions began louder and more voluminous. Then came the day I realized, deep in my heart the Society had not just made an error, but was totally 100% wrong. Naturally the first question then became: "What else are they wrong about?"

    I would wager a guess that I was/am not the only person to wage an inner struggle, and argue with myself. What I wouldn't have given to have the Internet in 1988 and seen such an argument taking place between the Witness and dispassionate, relentless logic. Instead of continuing the argument for another 4 or 5 years and then spending another 4 or 5 years afteward convinced I was condemened to execution by Jehovah (despite the fact I knew I was right), I could have seen these JW teachings fall and vanish like so much smoke and mirrors. For nearly a decade I thought only my elders were arrogant, condescending and just didn't want to give a direct answer.

    I submit that if even one person avoids years of struggle and heartache over a lie, these types of threads are invaluable. They show that Jehovah's Witnesses are incapable of defending their teachings. They show a Witness' only weapon is arrogance, misdirection, lies, obfuscation and when pushed into a corner, ignore completely as if nothing happened. They show the "emperor" has no clothes.

    The point is not getting thirdwitness or scholar (or even You_Know back in the old days) to admit they're wrong. The point is to show someone who is truly questioning, and who really wants to know an accurate answer the truth about the Truth.

    Edited to add: I would like to ask folks to read these threads with your old way of thinking. Remember when you were first questioning? Read these threads with your old JW mindset, but with an open mind. The result is shocking how obvious it all is. Nonsensical, arrogant, raving -- these JW apologists would have been repugnant to me 20 years ago. I would have been embarassed to call them "brother"; at least when I was confronted out in service I always answered direct questions with direct answers. These types do not. Which says a great deal, doesn't it?



    Be well,

    Chris

  • Auchmull
    Auchmull

    I personally am here specifically to see legitimate arguments for both sides (all sides) so I can make informed decisions.

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Chris,

    Thank you for that post. As ever, your personal experience is compelling.

    Take care - HS

  • DanTheMan
    DanTheMan
    They show that Jehovah's Witnesses are incapable of defending their teachings. They show a Witness' only weapon is arrogance, misdirection, lies, obfuscation

    It's sad how successful the WTS has been in indoctrinating the flock into holding such an emotional, judgemental view of Apostates™ -- and/or it's a sad testament to how uncritically accepting of every word the WTS prints that most jdubs are -- that without ever reading one word of a discussion board such as this one, or Randy's Freeminds website, or Crisis of Conscience, or whatever else, that the majority of jdubs would unhesitatingly use the above description for those of us that have left Mama. 'Boohoohoo how ruthless and deceitful those Apostates™ are that attack us' the publications weep endlessly, and the dubs raise their hand and wait for the microphone and say 'we certainly can see from the paragraph how ruthless and deceitful Apostates™ are, yes indeed'.

    And yet, any dub with an ounce of courage and open-mindedness who stumbles across this board quickly sees how utterly indefensible Mama Watchtower is. Not just in one or two things either. It's all a sham. And Mama's defenders on this board come off as laughably stupid and arrogant, and so I guess they are useful idiots really, as annoying as they are.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    "Rome has New York over a barrel"..Bwa-ha-ha-ha!..Friggin PriceLess!!...OUTLAW

  • happy man
    happy man

    Hello my old friend hAllary and Amazing

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