Elders and Their Word.

by Blueblades 16 Replies latest jw friends

  • Blueblades

    Nina, he was an adult living at home. That's not the issue. The issue is the Shepherds lied. Jehovah hates the lie, Satan is the father of the lie. You might call it theocractic warfare, it's still lying and involves the lives of the flock.


  • Nina

    A better title for your post would have been Blueblades and his gulliblity.

    Since when can elders promise that they won't disfellowship a person? After all the evidence is heard don't the elders prayerfully seek direction from Jehovah? You were an elder, you knew how the game was played. You knew about "theocratic warfare strategy". You knew JC procedure. You also knew that you weren't the one on the hook...but you let them hook you as well.

    There were at least two warnings that you either overlooked or ignored: One, that they called you instead of your son. Can you say "bait"? Two, they told you they would do everything they POSSIBLY could..as in "we have certain limits; either your son remains within them or all that we have held out to you during negotiations loses validity" (as if it ever had validity to begin with!).

    It seems that your intent was to act as a shield for your son. If you actually believed in and trusted these men then why did you behave as though your son needed protecting from them?

    The onus is on you. Your actions were ambivalent; you delivered your son to persons you weren't sure you could trust (why else would you have been negotiating with them in the first place?).

    Those elders didn't lie; you misjudged their position and, imo, overestimated yours.

    There is another possibility here, however obscure, and it is that your son told you one story and told them something completely different. Proverbs 26:17: As one grabbing hold of the ears of a dog is anyone passing by that is becoming furious at the quarrel that is not his. Better you should have stayed out of it.

    In your original post you asked:

    What have elders told you, even given their word and promising you whatever to get you to give out information that they would not otherwise get from you? Have you experienced elders who have done this to you? What did you do about it?

    Blue, if you want to have your "ears tickled" then go ahead and look for support among persons who have made the same mistake as yours.

    If you want to learn something then ponder the meaning of these words which, I am sure, are familiar: "Do not put your trust in nobles, nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs." (Psalm 146:3)

    *Exits, muttering: "...can't see two feet in front of their faces, always looking for someone else to blame...ya think they'd learn but noooo....."


  • Blueblades

    Nina, I will not go head to head with you on this. I will not get into the details of all that has happened here. You are entitled to your say and I will leave it at that. I was never and am not gullible. Proverbs 26:7, and Psalms 146:3 do not apply here. I do not need to learn something from the scriptures you cited. I have never looked for someone else to blame. My ears don't get tickled. Until you have been touched personally, as I and many others on this forum have been concerning the words of elders whom you are supposed to trust please don't make the conclusions about me that you have made.

    I am in my sixties and have served for over 30 years in close proximity to Governing Body members and many CO. and anointed ones. I know the inside story. Let me ask you this one question: Have you ever been betrayed by someone you have trusted in?


  • jwcol

    Absolutely this has happened to me.

    I had been married for almost 10 years. My wife was very abusive mentally and emotionally....I know, it's not common. Since our first year of marriage, she told me she was disgusted by me and didn't want to have sex except when she was in need. I adjusted. At 9 years, I fell into deep depression and had a complete nervous breakdown. I left my wife to avoid the evenings of her screaming at me. I wanted death. I left her and stayed with a girl from work. I told her there would be no relationship and had no idea there would be. She was very affectionate and was attracted to me. I ate up the attention and I committed immorality. I ended up sleeping with her several times. I came back home because I didn't want to be involved sexually with another woman and all of a sudden things were getting very complicated when all I really wanted was peace.

    I told my wife what happened. She admitted to me it was all her fault for driving me away and begged me to come back and things would be different. I trusted her. I was so sorry for what happened. I was very repentant and only hoped we could work things out. She talked to the elders and told them what happened. I would have talked to them, but she was the type of person that always wanted to handle everything. Besides, she wanted to talk to them and get them to meet with both of us. She felt very responsible for what had happened. For the first time, I felt positive that all these years might not be for nothing. The brothers told my wife they only wanted to help me and help us stay together. They met with me only...I thought they would meet with me, then her, then both of us. Instead, they met with me and after a 20 minute meeting disfellowshipped me. The only counsel that was read was from an older Watchtower that said "we must not me in a hurry to assume the wrongdoer is repentant." The main brother really liked my wife and was trying to protect her. He told me that even though she forgave me, that I needed to leave her. Two brothers later tried to convince my wife to leave me. My wife and I worked things out. She quickly went back to her old ways and slept with a guy from work. She was privately reproved and I was blamed by both her and the elders.

    There's more to the story and we divorced 4 years later, but yes, they brothers will say one thing and do another. I used to work with that elder though and he told me several times that lying is not wrong if the person "does not deserve the truth". I guess he didn't think I deserved the truth.

  • poppers
    Chippewa Falls Wisconsin

    Now you're getting into my neck of the woods - I'm 40 miles north of there.

  • serendipity

    Welcome jwcol!

    That's a very sad story, but one that probably happens more than we realize. The elders really need to butt out of a lot of matters. They just make things worse.

  • jwcol

    Thanks for the welcome!

    I've come to the sad conclusion that compassionate elders are very few and far between. We read what's in the magazines about they are supposed to treat the sheep, yet I have only found one over the years that is truly a good example. You would think that arrogant, totalitarian elders would be the exception rather than the rule, but it doesn't seem to be the case. I just think it's easier for people to break things down into rules and be dogmatic about it instead of offering love, taking situations into consideration, and genuinely trying to HELP people. Right now, the divorce rate in the organization is just as high as outside. This is proof that there is definitely SOMETHING wrong with the way things are done. The goal is just to disfellowship people and blame one party instead of getting to the root of the problem. It is so very sad.

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