Why does god allow suffering?

by GBSJG 47 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Apostate Kate
    Apostate Kate
    But that doesn't make sense either what is free will if you have two choices one leads to eternal life and the other to death that's no free choice you will only obey to God out of fear.

    The JW view is not a mainstream view. Well you got your Bible thumpers of course but basically mainstream Christianity teaches quite simply that God's love for each person is so strong that HE will continually seek you your whole life and that nothing you can do can save you.

    The Bible (not the WT) teaches that a close relationship with Jesus is a free gift that God will always be reaching out to give you. If you refuse that gift so be it. God will grieve over His loss of you but He will never force you recieve the gift if you don't want it.

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    I think it may have a lot to do with the concept of God being taught.

    There is another thread from 3 days ago or so, that questions how many people God directly destroyed in the OT versus how many Satan did.

    In it, poster Satanus came up with a pretty amazing list which may have some relevance to this question.

    The OT "God" interpretation that the JWs want to "witness" for is a rampant and capricious mass killer. "Sin" basically comes down to "not following the rules" in some minute detail. No exceptions.

    An outstanding example - Uzzah - he just reached out to keep the ark from falling in the river...ZAP! Well, I guess he didn't "suffer".

    An example more to the point of this thread - Job - God allowed suffering (and death in the case of his kids) to prove a point with the "opposer". He even set terms and limitations to the torture! The WT explanations on this say it was perfectly appropriate. Anyway, God later healed the boils, made him rich again, and he had more kids. I always wondered, well - OK, but what about the first ones? It is sort of like, well - I deliberately shot your dog to see what would happen, so here is a new puppy. I would still have been pissed off if I had been in Job's place.

    My answer is this - the "angry and jealous Jehovah" concept taught by the Watchtower is indifferent to human suffering. Always has been. This type of God is perfectly willing to promote human suffering if it is in the cause of promoting his "name" or winning a debate of ideas with opposing godlike creatures. IMHO, any religion that promotes such a God image has a hard time answering the question of this thread.

    James

  • love2Bworldly
    love2Bworldly

    I really am struggling with my belief system. I can't stand to see people or animals suffering or in pain. I try not to watch the news every day because to see all the suffering, like what it's like for civilians who live in the Middle East under constant war is heartbreaking.

    I really wish if there is an Almighty God up there, that people who are truly evil like terrorists/suicide bombers/child molesters would have an instant heart attack and not be filling up space.

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    Why does god allow suffering? Because he's a bored little boy, which reminds me of when I was a wee little lad and used to torture worms and bugs, usually it was when I had no one to play with.

  • robhic
    robhic
    Let us consider an illustration. Imagine that a teacher is telling his students how to solve a difficult problem. A clever but rebellious student claims that the teacher’s way of solving the problem is wrong. Implying that the teacher is not capable, this rebel insists that he knows a much better way to solve the problem.

    Let us also consider another view. What if the rebellious student is right? What if his answer is the correct one and is a better resolution than the teacher's?

    If the teacher is worth a damn as a teacher, he/she would view the student's solution with an open mind. And if it truly is a better answer, then the teacher would (or should) congratulate the student on fine work and work this new solution into his teaching for the future. How do people think improvements in the real world occur?

    We'd have no microwave ovens if that technician hadn't walked in front of a radar dish with the candy bar in his pocket. Before that happened, this guy's teacher would have had a whole different "take" on microwaves and radar dishes. His old teachings wouldn't have included radar-like devices being used for cooking. Would his student (the technician with the candy bar) have been called a "rebellious student?"

    In the example given by the WTS I guess the rebellious student's only fate would have been to be ostracized, thrown out of the classroom and/or be killed for going against the teacher.

    Glad I didn't go to that school!

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    frankiespeaken - you make him sound a lot like the "Q - Entity" on Star Trek 2!

    You know, powerful, capricious, mischevious, a practical joker, but perfectly capable of wanton destruction!

    Thanks for your wording, it would never have occurred to me otherwise -

    James - of the Gee Thanks, Q for Dumping the "BORG" all over our head and shoulders class.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete



    The Wt reasoning simply does not satisfy. If God has delayed because he wants to prove that human efforts to govern are inferior, surely He should have provided some example of His magnanimous way of ruling to serve as the benchmark. The only example we have according to the bible story is the Kingdoms of Israel/Judah. Hardly a glowing success story!

    It also is insisted that the 'end' has not come because he wanted humans to have achieved the 'height of their scientific achievements' so that they would have no claim to have been prematurely judged. What the heck does that mean? Humans are always improving upon their science and always will. This type of WT rhetoric is meaningless then.

    It is also said that God allows humans to suffer to prove their loyalty to God under adversity. This circular reasoning should be obvious.

    Also to say that God delays the 'end' so as to find more people who want to join Him is to suggest that noone would want to join God in an environment where God had removed suffering and evil.

    A simple look at population growth stats reveals that by WT reasoning God is willing to kill 1,000 newborns for every new born who becomes a JW. The longer He delays therefore them more he is forced to kill.

    Also they suggest that some angels might question whether God's human design was flawed and Adam was too weak to resist temptation. The WT themselves erased the force of this argument when they depict Jesus as Adam's equal but proving loyal. Therefore using the WT theology this excuse for delay became mute 2,000 years ago.

    None of the "reasons" offered by the WT for God's permission of suffering (as they word it) in fact offer any reason, none of them have an objective in view, a teminus. Scientific knowledge will forever grow, people will forever be born. These very same flawed arguments could be made 5,000 years from now.

  • lowden
    lowden

    Love2bworldly said

    I really wish if there is an Almighty God up there, that people who are truly evil like terrorists/suicide bombers/child molesters would have an instant heart attack and not be filling up space.

    It's a simple concept but right up my street of thought l2bw.

    There is no reason to let a suicide bomber press the button, a child molester torture and murder a child...NO REASON. NO ISSUE IS BIG ENOUGH TO LET THESE THINGS HAPPEN!! The ISSUE of Universal Soveriegnty is between god and satan according to the WTS. Well piss off and have your argument on another planet, find another playground. Sick, sick, sick!

    But of course....it's just a sick story used to control and befuddle vulnerable minds. It makes me soooo angry that people try and portray the bible god as a god of love. OH MY GOD!!! That used to be meeeee.

    Peace

    Lowden

  • love2Bworldly
    love2Bworldly

    Sometimes it feels like we humans are just a laboratory experiment in a great big laboratory in the sky with God being Dr. Frankenstein.

  • Brigid
    Brigid

    Do you mean, why does biblegod allow suffering? I have to concur with Daystar's thoughts on this.

    It is a fundamental problem of seeing the world only in black and white--one extreme or another with no striving for balance.

    Now what I struggle with is: Do good and evil truly exist? And if so, what is the nature of each? What determines what is evil? Perception? Social mores? Cultural conditioning? I mean, I certainly have my own ideas of what "evil" is and what I perceive is "good".

    And if they do exist and our sole purpose is to vanquish evil from our schema (which I do not believe necessarily) what does a universe without "evil" and only "good" look like? Who determines that? How does one see Light without the contrasting darkness?

    I have no answers for these questions, hence the struggle.

    ~B.

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