thirdwitness and other pseudo-scholars: Let's discuss the Hillah Stele

by AuldSoul 124 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    thirdwitless wrote:

    : If the wildly fictional story known as HIllah stele

    A finer example of circular reasoning would be hard to find. Why is the Hillah stele 'fictional'? Because Mommy says so. Why does Mommy say so? Because Mommy would lose her braindead children if she didn't.

    : is really true it is not speculation at all to say when the temple in Harran was destroyed. It was destroyed as you say in 609.

    Correct.

    Here comes another example of the same Mommy-based circular reasoning:

    : But 609 according to the chronology the Bible gives is not the 16th year of Nabo but rather about the 16th/17th year of Neb. It is really that simple

    As I've said a dozen times before, all you've set forth is speculation based on your need to defend your Watchtower-Mommy chronology.

    : although you refuse to see that because you deny what the Bible clearly says about the 70 year desolation of Judah, 40 year desolation of Egypt, 70 years of Tyre, and other bible proof. The reason you deny these is because you put secular chronology interpretations above the Bible.

    And as I've proved conclusively, Jehovah's Witnesses deny what the Bible clearly says on any number of topics, including creation, chronology, etc., etc., etc. The fact that you steadfastly refuse to deal with these proofs shows that you know I'm right.

    The fact is that the Bible directly contradicts Watchtower claims about "the 70 year desolation of Judah". You yourself even contradict the Watchtower Society about the "70 years of Tyre". Your interpretation of the "40 year desolation of Egypt" is entirely self-serving and completely ignores historical facts, just as does the rest of Watchtower chronology.

    Your inability to cite evidence in favor of your foolish biblical interpretations is positive proof that they have no foundation, especially when solid evidence is produced against them.

    AlanF

  • thirdwitness
    thirdwitness

    Midget said: Do you have any stele, diaries or other contemporary inscriptions that show Elhulhul was destroyed during Nebuchadnezzar's reign (your speculation)?

    Right back at ya: Do you have any stele, diaries or other contemporary inscriptions that show Elhulhul was destroyed during Nabopolassers 16th year(your speculation)?

    Looting does not mean destroying. Jerusalem example was given as proof.

  • thirdwitness
    thirdwitness

    auldsoul: secular experts have credentials and no vested interest in deceiving anyone by means of their interpretations of secular data.

    The problem with the conclusions of the secular experts is that they do not give the inspired word of God, the Bible, any greater weight than the other writings. Maybe less.

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    thirdwitless the liar said:

    : Right back at ya: Do you have any stele, diaries or other contemporary inscriptions that show Elhulhul was destroyed during Nabopolassers 16th year(your speculation)?

    See my post 4596 on the previous page of this thread. It contains three contemporary documents that show this.

    : Looting does not mean destroying.

    Once again, liar: The Sippar Cylinder says: "(Sin) became angry with that city [Harran] and temple [Ehulhul]. He aroused the Medes, who destroyed that temple and turned it into ruins."

    AlanF

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    thirdwitless the hypocrite said:

    : The problem with the conclusions of the secular experts is that they do not give the inspired word of God, the Bible, any greater weight than the other writings. Maybe less.

    But you and your precious Mommy give greater weight to the conclusions of geologists than to the Bible, when the Bible clearly states that the entire universe was created in six days.

    Hypocrite!

    AlanF

  • SWALKER
    SWALKER

    Thirdwitness...the numbers just aren't adding up in your favor. I understand why you are fighting so hard, because to lose this battle means to lose the war. If 607 isn't correct, then neither is 1914....Sorry to break the news to you, but you got to let it go. The only way the WTS can date the chronology of the kings of that time period is by secular history...the dates aren't in the Bible...and there's overwhelming evidence that the WTS has once again messed up. They can't tell the truth now as they have lied and covered it up for soooo long and the religion would just disintergrate if they confessed.

    I had a grandfather that threw all his Bible Students books in the trash after the group waiting on the Brooklyn Bridge didn't get taken up to heaven as they thought they would. It's too bad the hundreds of others of my relatives didn't follow suite as it would have saved many of us from wasted lives.

    I hope the saying "better late than never" proves to be the case with you as it finally did with me and my immediate family. We finally saw the "truth."

    Swalker

  • thirdwitness
    thirdwitness

    We finally saw the "truth."

    To the contrary its pretty clear that most here are not interested in truth. Rather than disprove the points that I have brought up there has only been insults and name calling. I hope the JW lurkers have taken note. Perhaps it is time to take my leave at least for now since this does not seem to be a place for serious and honest discussions.

  • avengers
    avengers


    thirdwitless wrote:

    Alan. You crack me up.

    To the contrary its pretty clear that most here are not interested in truth. Rather than disprove the points that I have brought up there has only been insults and name calling. I hope the JW lurkers have taken note. Perhaps it is time to take my leave at least for now since this does not seem to be a place for serious and honest discussions.

    I think that's the best thing for you.

    Thirdwitless wrote:

    a man known to have been a child molester does not qualify for a responsible position in the congregation. In a few instances, individuals guilty of an act of child abuse have been appointed to positions within the congregation. Which one is it Witless? Makes me wonder if you're one yourself! Go back to the meetings. You belong to the Watchtower. Andy
  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul
    thirdwitness: Rather than disprove the points that I have brought up...

    Once again, basic education in argumentation: A question is not a point. It is interrogative. Beyond unfounded statements that:

    (1) "my contention is the the temple was looted in the 16th year of Nabopolasser but not destroyed for 20 years later around the 15th year of Neb. That is when the 54 years would commence."
    Your contention is based on conjecture and nothing more. A conjectured fantasy regarding history is hardly disprovable, any more than a belief in fairies can be disproven, if the person who believes the fantasy disregards any evidence contrary to his or her belief. You have repeatedly shown that there is no weight of evidence sufficient to shake your confidence in the interpretation of the Bible supplied by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

    (2) "But the truth is even the Adad-Stele, which has been shown at best faulty and at worst an outright fabrication, cannot be relied upon. However even that does not say the temple was destroyed. The reader must again assume that it was destroyed in the 16th year of Nabopolasser when really the writing says that the city and people were ruined."
    Merriam-Webster defines "ruin" as "to reduce to ruins: DEVASTATE" but you seem to wish another definition could be used. The fact is that the Adda-Guppi Stele and BM 21901 work in concert and agree that the event decribed in the Adda-Guppi Stele occurred at the same time as the event described in BM 21901 (namely "the sack of Harran"). This removed the possibility of the scenario you deceitfully try to assert.

    (3) "By combining two different sources you attempt to deceive."
    Do you wish to be held to the same standard? Once again, your unfounded assertion is patently false. By combining a variety of sources one can form a more complete picture of events. In fact, you have done this very thing repeatedly. I don't think anyone has taken issue with your quoting of many sources except where the events described clearly do not correspond to each other.
    The fact is, the Adda-Guppi Stele sets the timing and extent of damage for the event described in BM 21901. BM 21901 sets the timing for the event it describes as exactly the same as the timing for the event described by Adda-Guppi. The two sources are tied together by the reference to the timing (i.e. 16th year of Nabopolassar) regarding which neither are ambiguous in the slightest. The timing of the event described by BM 21901 is independently confirmed, not by someone who had to reference a scroll, but by a person who lived through the event. The extent of damage is delivered by an eyewitness of highest caliber, a priestess to the God of the very temple that was destroyed.

    Your posts are full of what you believe and are extremely soft on facts. What you believe is another way of saying your private interpretation of data. Everyone reading your posts can tell that your "private interpretation" is lockstep with Watchtower Society "interpretation." Therefore, I have three questions to ask you. They are each yes or no, and the first one I have asked before. If you are incapable of answering the simplest form of question in the English language, you can hardly be expected to master a rational response to those more complicated.

    We will see if you are capable of answering the simplest form of interogatory before pressing on to more complex questions, and keep in mind, lurkers are reading:

    Does everything Jehovah inspires prophets to speak come about exactly as prophesied, yes or no?

    The reason for asking this one is obvious to you, which explains why you have refrained from a direct answer. If there is EVER a recorded occasion on which inspired prophecy was not fulfilled exactly as uttered, then all prophecy becomes immediately dismissable pending independent evidence of fulfillment exactly as prophesied.

    If the Watchtower Society changed it doctrine regarding the destruction of Solomon's Temple, stating that it occurred in 647 BC, would you also change your arguments accordingly, yes or no?

    The reason for that latter question is that the Watchtower Society originally supported 1874 as the year for the invisible return of Jesus in heaven and, according to their current chronology, that teaching would require the destruction of Solomon's Temple to have occurred in 647 BC.

    If the Governing Body had gone along with the proposal to move the invisible return of Christ to 1934 AD (the second such move for this event), and correspondingly moved the date for the fall of Solomon's Temple to 587 BC, would you also change your arguments accordingly, yes or no?

    The reason for asking this is to fairly and unequivocally determine whether you are actually supporting what the Bible says or the interpretation of the Bible currently held to be true by the Governing Body. I doubt you will answer all of these, and lurkers will know what you are by your silence.

    AuldSoul

  • thirdwitness
    thirdwitness

    First off the Adad Guppi does not say the temple was ruined. It says the people and city. Also the Adad guppi is probably based on the BM Chronicle and the writer assumes, as you have, that the temple was destroyed. But the BM chronicle in no way says the temple was destroyed but only that 'vast booty was taken from the temple and city." So even if the Adad guppi said that the temple itself was ruined (which it doesn't) that would really prove nothing.

    Does everything Jehovah inspires prophets to speak come about exactly as prophesied, yes or no?

    Yes, unless stipulations are made or Jehovah has reason to change it and in that case we are told about the reasons for the change as in the case of Nineveh. But please bring forth your point. I assume you are going to show us that what he prophecies does not always come true exactly as prophecied. And then you are going to connect that to the 40 year desolation of Egypt.

    If the Watchtower Society changed it doctrine regarding the destruction of Solomon's Temple, stating that it occurred in 647 BC, would you also change your arguments accordingly, yes or no?

    I would have to see the reason why the change was being made.

    If the Governing Body had gone along with the proposal to move the invisible return of Christ to 1934 AD (the second such move for this event), and correspondingly moved the date for the fall of Solomon's Temple to 587 BC, would you also change your arguments accordingly, yes or no?

    I would again have to see the reason why the change was being made.

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