Why does the trinity matter... or not?

by drew sagan 24 Replies latest jw friends

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  jgnat

  I find doctrinal debates on the nature of God to be the most useless, because no argument can be proven based on empirical, testable evidence. The apparent "winner" is chosen either by their eloquence or mastery of the scriptures.

  I think my best argument so far I described God by telling the parable of the blind men and the elephant.

  http://www.noogenesis.com/pineapple/blind_men_elephant.html

  I told my study that the nature of God is TOO BIG to be fully undertood by any one, and that we were probably BOTH wrong.
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  jgnat

  You can also tackle the trinity argument two other ways.

  The JW concept of Jesus as a minor deity directly conflicts with MANY scriptures. Instead of trying to justify the Trinity, try and get a JW to justify their reduction of Jesus's status.

  Also, challenge the JW's perception of the trinity as some kind of triune god arrangement. This is false. Trinitarians are not pagans.
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  codeblue

  I think the Dreamer Dreaming says is best:

  when I left JWs, I pondered if not them, then who? I came to see that no one is the best answer... its all ignorant people worrying about stupid things rather than focusing on what even Jesus said was important--- loving God, your neighbor and your enemy and working on removing the beams from your own eyes instead of the splinters in everyone elses....

  That is exactly what I look for in people that say they are Christians..........actually showing they love God, their neighbor and the rest of the statement.

  My Lutheran sister in law is hell bent on me believing the Trinity and thinks I am NOT a Christian even though I told her that I was baptized as a follower of Jesus (when I was a JW). (I threw her last letter away because she is preaching to me like a crazy JW and I can't handle it)

  She on the other hand did not show love toward us when our Mother died and we were left with an alcoholic father. One time we called our brother to HELP us (we were all just teens) and he went home and told her how it bothered him to "see it" (not too mention we had to LIVE with it all the time), she got on the phone and called my oldest teenage sister and said: "you are not to call your brother anymore, it bothered him too much to see your Dad like that"....So to me, she is NOT the true Christian or believer of Jesus.

  Codeblue
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  Auchmull

  I said that I can prove the trinity from the scriptures

  Can you share those scriptures? I can't search the board and I feel pretty convinced about the Non-trinity from my bible studies.

  thanks.
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  Forscher

  So I would encourage a believing JW not to bother too much about the Trinity but to read the NT and see what picture(s) of "Jesus" actually emerge(s). Then read about early church history and see how the Trinitarian formulae came about.

  
  I tried that Narkissos and ended up more convinced than ever that the Trinity doctrine is not truth. That being said, it didn't reinforce JW theology correct as a body in my mind either. Somebody said that Arianism was a johnny-come-lately teaching anyway. It was only in the sense that Arius taught that Jesus was merely another angel who was sort of promoted, at least that is according to Arius' enemies whos' depscriptions of Arius' teachings are the only ones we have and we have no way of knowing if that is what he really taught. Justin Martyr taught that Jesus was a God precisely in the same manner that a number of gods were the sons of other gods as well as gods themselves. A teaching very different from what ultimately became the Trinity doctrine when the Cappodacean Brothers proposed it about 370 or 380 A.D. (I can't remember of the top of my head which).
  There is a fellow who posts here occaisionally who is a Bible Student and has a large and at times contrversial presense on Bible Student forums. I won't mention his ID. But he is of the firm opinion that although the Trinity doctrine is false doctrine, belief in it does not disqualify one from membership in the 144,000 Israel of God. almost everytime a trinitarian gets on a Bible Student forum and preaches the trinity doctrine, this guy will pose the question of where the Bible teaches one must believe either way to be saved. I haven't seen a reasonable answer to that one yet.
  Like him, I am not prepared to be dogmatic on that point either.
  Forscher