Fair minded person with a fair point of view

by keo15929 41 Replies latest jw experiences

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  Fatfreek

  One more welcome, friend Keo,

  Reading your story was as if I were reading my own some years ago. You, however, express yourself far more eloquently. I believe that's a good sign because I believe (that's only me, mind you) that a person's eloquence somehow reflects the housekeeping inside his brain. Cluttered thoughts prevent us from clearly expressing ourselves. Again, just me.

  I too, shuddered, at times when I'd go to the door with all the questionable issues laying on the back burner of my brain. What if they ask me this question or that question?

  Finally, I could bear it no longer. I decided that if I could find the answer to a single question, all those other obstacles would probably fall into place. I then isolated everything down to one issue -- the principle of honesty. Was there evidence that the Society, in it's own written pages, was guilty of such a pre-meditated, egregious act? If so, I reasoned to myself, it would go a long way toward knowing that they'd truly crossed the line.

  There came to be many issues, documented from their very own pages that proved their lack of honesty but one in particular stands out. The predicted and failed date of 1925. See what you think as you browse the following letter that was never mailed to the governing body:

  http://users.oeccwildblue.com/millerlr/DearMother.pdf

  Fats
• 

  Stealth453

  Welcome to the board.
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  SirNose586

  All this that I've read about the WTS becoming an NGO affiliate of the UN seems to be a mountain made out of a mole hill. To those of you with this kind of talk I have to say you don't know all of the circumstances involved or the communication between the UN and the WTS. Neither do I. It's not fair to outright call someone a liar when you know that you don't know all of the details. It makes no sense to grab at whatever you can to bash someone.

  Ok, so I don't know all the details about the UN thing. No one here can. But we can at least take them to task for their justification, which was that "we were just getting a library card."

  I have a document which proves that getting a library card and becoming an NGO is not one in the same. You can get a library pass without becoming an NGO.

  So, why is associating with the "horrible UN that dares to make itself king over earth" now ok? If the relationship was so innocent and inconsequential, why did they have to lie about it? And why won't they disclose the ongoing NGO relationship that still exists in Europe?
• 

  TheListener

  Welcome Keo. I liked and appreciate your post. Although I do disagree with your opinion:

  I still have the opinion that the Witnesses are closer to what it says than any other religion, in beliefs and in conduct and practices.

  Welcome to the board.
• 

  outoftheorg

  Welcome Keo.

  Don't let some of the anger on this forum run you off.

  There are very many here that are past that phase and look at things a little different now.

  A lot of the anger is due to some of the grief at losing family members and divorces that could have been prevented if the wbts did not have such a rigid stance against those who question some of their teachings and cause a family member to be disfellowshiped. They have a reason to be angry.

  I for one would like to hear more from you and what you have experienced. I lost my marriage and my siblings and they are now deceased.

  Know why I was df'd?? For fits of rage. Yeah you read it right, it was for fits of rage.

  When the elders refused to act when my daughter told me that her Uncle, an elder had molested her and several other sisters complained about him.

  My fit of rage was when I told the elders they needed the shit kicked out of them. Then bingo! I am df'd my daughter is left swing in the wind and I loose my siblings.

  The elder has since died, my siblings have died, except for my brother.

  I was angry for a long time. I am passed that now and I assure you that I will not verbally attact you .

  Outoftheorg Glad to see you here and wish you the best.
• 

  Lady Liberty

  Dear Keo,

  Welcome to the forum!! We are glad to have you here. Try and understand, that just because we all post here, doesn't mean we have to agree with each others feelings on matters. Many have lost loved ones, mates, children, parents etc.. and are very bitter. Some have "thrown the baby out with the bathwater" so to speak and no longer believe in a creator. That is not the majority though. Many have not lost their love for Jehovah God or his son Christ Jesus.

  I was raised in the organization. Married a wonderful man who also was raised in the organization. Slowly we began to see that many of the things we had always been taught as truth and believed all our lives, were not what they seemed. We slowly began checking things out. It wasn't long and we realized that we needed to dig even deeper.

  Jehovah tells us to keep checking, keep making sure of all things.. so that is what we did. We now have been inactive for a year and a half. I agree there are many wonderful people still in the organization. I think almost all here will agree with that. They for the most part have not looked into things. When they do.. most leave. Those that don't usually can't. I invite you to do a little research on 607. If you haven't already, try and find proof for that date outside the Watchtower literature. Remember how crucial that date is. With out that date, virtually the whole thing crumbles like a house of cards. From there, you will discover many things. The NGO thing may not seem big to you.. but is is just another thing that the organization has hidden. Example: my Uncle spent 7 years in prison for not fighting in the Vietnam war. He could have done civil service work instead, but that was not allowed. He needed to remain neutral. Then finding out that the organization was a NGO member, certainly is hypocritical, that is not neutral. My Uncle is dead now, but I cannot imagine the anger he would feel if he knew what they had hypocritically taken part of.

  You see different people react to different things based on their personal experience. We don't have to agree. But the beauty of this forum is that we can have an opinion, express it, and weigh it against others comments. So please try and understand, many here are going through alot, and need love and support.

  We look forward to having you here and hearing more from you!

  Sincerely,

  Lady Liberty
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  Carmel

  Hi Keo! Welcome from a long time exjw! I left almost 40 years ago and never got into "bashing" the witnesses as I too knew many well intended people. But then I've had a life time of meeting many more well intended people in all walks of life from all religions. Now to two questions from yourb excellent first post... regarding the shunning/disfellowshiping doctrins of the JWs, you cite 1 cor. authored by Paul. Question, do you prefer your interpretation of Pauls admonitions or to the example set by Christ? When in doubt, try looking to the exemplar, I'd say. Secondly, you state the oft repeated JWism that they have the most reasonable (truest) understanding of the bible. With whom have you compared it to? Are your comparisons based on what the Watchtower Society claims other religions teach or have you personally looked into how others believe? Until you've completed the assignment of investigating ALL exegetical methods, I'd be awfully careful which one you label "truest". Just my two cents.

  be well

  carmel
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  Arthur

  I'm not saying that I doubt Witness beliefs only, it's everything of a spiritual nature. There simply is no way to prove the Bible is what it says it is. In fact a lot of it seems to come from earlier religions.

  These were observations that I began to make when researching the Old Testament. Two of the most enlightening books that I have read are "Who Wrote The Bible" by Richard Elliott Friedman and "Secret Origins Of the Bible" by Tim Callahan. There are indeed several accounts in the Old Testament that originated from earlier religious mythology. This is actually old news. Many Bible scholars all over the world have realized this for centuries. (see Friedman's book)

  The Watchtower Society has often attempted to demonize people who don't believe in Biblical literalism or "inerrancy" as people who are anti-Christian, anti-Bible, or who are arrogant atheists. (They attempted to do this in their book "The Bible God's Word or Man's ) But the truth is, there are many respected Christian scholars and devotees who are willing to admit the fact that some of the Old Testament is indeed literary, and not literal historical accounts (Samson, Noah and the flood, Tower of Babel). This does not make them anti-Christian, or anti-Bible; it just means that they have a level of intellectual honesty that others are not willing to exercise.
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  Arthur

  keo,

  There was something I left out. I thought your post was really good. I really like how you were able to express you disagreement with various viewpoints in a calm, rational, and mature manner. Every single one of us on this site gets "shot down" or ridiculed at one time or another. Don't take it personally, It just comes with the territory. Don't let it manipulate you or cause you to quit posting. Just roll with the punches, take it in stride, and show a sense of humor in all of it. I think you'll be glad that you stuck around.
• 

  dobbie

  Hi Keo welcome from another newbie. I thought your post was very well written, i wish i was half as eloquent!I too had problems going out in the ministry, i have had doubts for a long time, i so want to believe in a God etc but other times i just don't know. I agree that there are very nice witnesses out there, but then there are very nice "worldly" people out there too.They are just a bit misguided and quite a few feel doubts but follow the counsel to put them away. However i think you come to a point where you can't do that anymore. You mentioned about angry people etc. on this board, the reason i joined this one is because it is one of the friendliest and sincere.If you read some of the stories, postings on this board you can understand why there are so many people hurting because of the WTS. I am shocked to find how many here have been shunned by parents,children, siblings etc, when its not even necessary, they don't have to. It must only be because the wts elders have encouraged this. Yes i agree that i the witnesses have got some of it right, but then i haven't looked into other religions and i expect any religion has got its good and bad things in it.Please stay around look forward to seeing more postings from you.