Question for Christians only

by Steve Lowry 19 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  parakeet

  Qcmbr is a Mormon, I believe.
  SL, I don't think there's anything wrong with you. Just because you can't squeeze out a few tears on command doesn't mean that you have no faith. Stop comparing yourself with others, which is also something the WTS encouraged: who had the most hours, the best meeting attendance, the most converts, etc. Give yourself a break, for crying out loud.
• 

  kid-A

  And then to relive it all upon the cross until the great work was done for a selfish stuck up world such as ours and to be put to open shame by the ungrateful mob. I am amazed that we have the temerity to whinge about how our life can in any way be worse.

  To paraphrase Adam Sandler, "whoop-dee-do!". I know people who suffered excruciating pain from cancer for months and years on end, until finally dying at a young age. People have been tortured and murdered in much more grotesque and hideous fashions than Jesus ever was. So making it out like he died the most horrible, painful death in the history of humanity is complete bullsh*t, IMHO. I wonder what "selfish, stuck up world" you are referring to? Incredible how similar your mindset is to the typical JW. EVERYDAY, ordinary humans (not claiming to be the son of god) sacrifice their lives, to help their fellow human being. There is sacrifice and honour and human goodness all around us. What a pitiful world view you have and how miserable you really must be to hold your fellow human beings in such pious contempt. Sad indeed.
• 

  Steve Lowry

  Thanks for all the replies. Ok, lemme explain something a little better than I did originally. Its really not about simple emotional outbursts or unbalanced devotion that I’m referring to that I’ve seen in other Christians, even though I can see how y all’ could have gotten that from my thread starter. What I have, is a practically complete and total lack of appreciation for the Sacrifice of Jesus, with the exception that I realize this was done for me so I could commune with my Maker. And that seems a little sad to me. I’m not trying to live up to other’s standards, I’m just bench marking a little. I don’t think I’m ever gonna feel the impact of the Sacrifice due to my upbringing as a JW. But that’s ok. I have gained many other valuable lessons from the Watchtower Society that have improved my faith immensely. In fact, I’m quite grateful to the Watchtower Society for being the best bad example not to follow in the quest for knowing who God is and what He expects from us. I just wanted to know if other former JW's kinda felt the same way. It seems I’m not alone. Thanks again for the replies.

  Steve
• 

  Steve Lowry

  Kid-A, are you now an athiest? Hey man, I'm not bustin' your chops, I just wanna know what you believe in, if anything. Maybe just yourself? I've known many that have no belief in God. Everyone must choose their own path.
• 

  poodlehead

  Bear with me. I am going to make a statement for both side.

  The point was not that Christ suffered more than anyone else who has never lived. To be true he had a pretty good life. He did go through a lot of pain the last few days of his life. And he certainly had a lot of frustration from the first day he became known. But I don't think that was the point.

  I have been through a lot in my life. I have been raped, savagly as a young women. Died and was brought back to life. Had my 10 year old son in a coma. Had a terrible devorice where my husband raped me and tried to have me put in a mental hospital. I also feel my life does not compare with his. BUT I did not go through anything I went through by choice. And if you think that I would give my life for some low life like the man who raped me. Well get a clue. Yet Jesus would have. That is the difference. Sure it helped that he knew he was christ son. And he knew what was waiting for him on the other side. But it still was a hard choice. Also I think he was frieghtened not so much for himself. But whether his sacrifice would mean anything. If anyone would get it.

  Ask yourself. Would you do the same for the scummiest low life in the world? I know I sure wouldn't.

  About the emotional thing. I have never like the whole Chrismatic thing. The crying and emotional rollercoaster. It makes me feel like I am being taken. Like getting all excited about watching a Magician and then finding out it was a trick. Remember a lot of churches like to have you get all emotional. It is a rush and some people crave that kind of thing. Also some people don't feel anything but pretend that they do, to seem more holly and get more attention.

  Don't worry you are fine. At least you can go to church. I still have a hard time even talking about the bible with anyone. Let alone go to church. But I hope someday my wounds will heal and I can find a church home.
• 

  lola28

  EVERYDAY, ordinary humans (not claiming to be the son of god) sacrifice their lives, to help their fellow human being. There is sacrifice and honour and human goodness all around us. What a pitiful world view you have and how miserable you really must be to hold your fellow human beings in such pious contempt. Sad indeed.

  What he said.

  Lola
• 

  Perry

  Has the Watchtower Society sucked even this feeling of compassion out of me? Or am I just a cold-hearted son-of-a-bitch? Yea yea, I know that because of His Sacrifice I now have the ability to commune with God, and I am grateful for that

  It seems to me that the enemy has stolen your identity. This comes as no surprise because he has no real power over you and he stands already defeated. He can only deceive, like a big bag of wind but no thunder. You are already victorious in Christ. The reason that you worry about such things is that the Spirit is living inside of you. Otherwise, if you were still dead in your flesh, your flesh wouldn't care less. The Spirit is telling you that there is an incongruity here. Here it is.

  According to your own words, you see yourself as an emotionless has-been victum of a cult, or a "cold hearted son-or-a bitch". This has guilt and shame written all over it, primary weapons of the enemy. The enemy has given you two options just to make it appear like you have a choice and both of which is the opposite of who God says you are. In other words, you've been lied to and you're buying it. Remember that "there is no condemnation in Christ". So you have no reason to fear, no reason to feel like you are short changing God.

  The reason that the Spirit is bringing this to your attention is not to punish you, or to shame you, or to make you feel guilty, that's what the enemy does. God is bringing this to your attention because He desires more of your company. He wants to fellowship with you. He wants to meet up with you in the wilderness and head out into the unknown together as Father and son, as Mentor and Student, and as two brothers, and as friends. If you choose to believe who the enemy says you are instead of who God says you are, a deception has entered the relationship and he wants you to choose (again) who'll you'll believe.

  As a reminder,

  Because of justification you are totally forgiven by and pleasing to God. Fear of failure is no longer a concern.

  Because of reconciliation you are completely accepted by God. You have no need to fear rejection.

  Because of propitiation you are deeply loved by God and He calls you his son and friend.

  Because of regeneration, you have been made brand new in Christ and complete. He gently lives inside of you.

  So you must decide who you'll believe... God or Satan. That's why God puts such high value on faith. Remember that you are an enemy of Satan - 1 Peter 5: 8. The fact is that he fears you. If he can get you to believe that you are something other than what God has pronounced that you are, then he lessens your threat. It's just damage control for him.

  I believe that your lack of passion you describe about the Cross is tied up with your confusion about your identity. If you ask God to examine you and to reveal to you what you need in order for you all to have closer fellowship, I believe he will do it.

  Remember this is all out war. Our commander in Chief is awesome. He won't let you down.
• 

  praiseband

  I am a Christian, and I think Poodlehead (i love that name) got it pretty close for me. Jesus told his disciples the greatest commandments were to love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind, and to love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus's crucifixion was the ultimate example of just that, but people didn't understand. They were expecting a worldly king and warrior to throw himself into political leadership and protect them from earthly enemies. They didn't see that he was there to throw himself between Satan and separation from God and themselves. I don't think God wants you to be in a constant state of weeping and mourning over Jesus's sacrifice. I do think he wants you, all of us, to understand what real love is. When a person shows kindness of any type to another person, God rejoices. When we are unkind he is sad and disappointed. Jesus suffered from the physical torment, no doubt; but, I believe he suffered even more from the emotional aspect of the world not fully comprehending the choices they made then or would make in the future. The message is simple, but we always try to make it so complicated! Love God, love each other. It really doesn't matter what year Jerusalem was destroyed - it was. It doesn't matter when Jesus will return - he will. It doesn't matter if we praise God in traditional or contemporary style - just praise Him. Understand that real love is unconditional - Jesus died for those who followed him from the beginning, but denied him at the end, as well as the thief dying next to him. He died for the Roman soldiers and he died for his mother. So that ALL might see what real love was.
• 

  poodlehead

  Just another quick thought. My mind always tries to find the hummor in things. I said this at a meeting once and no one understood so I will put it here and see if you get it.

  Jesus impressed me the most by his patience. I have very little at times, when it comes to stupid people. I hate to say this but some of his disciples were STUPID. I get great joy from that because it makes me feel I have a chance. But my point is over and over again the Apostles mess up. Peter denied him and he knew him personally. But my favorite is when Jesus is walking with the Apostles and they start arguing about who will sit next to Jesus in heaven, because they both feel they are the most important. When I first read this I started to laugh. Why because I put myself in Jesus's shoes and thought how I would have handles this. Jesus was so calm and went into a nice parable about how the birds don't worry what they shall eat, etc. In other words don't worry about it, it's not an issue. I would have handled it quite differently. Both would have been smacked in the head for sure. Then I would have laid into them. Something like. "Are you high! What in the Sam #%& are you talking about! I wouldn't have either one of you at my side, you Moron's!"

  My point is this moves me. I love to write and I am working on a book. I can't imagine facing death with it unfinished. I would have to intrust it to someone and I don't know a soul that I can think of. Maybe that's how Jesus felt at times. Are these nuts going to be able to handle this job. No wonder he sweat blood. He was trusting the keys of the kingdom to........Peter? He thought he was the best man for the job? Didn't say much for the others.

  But how wonderful it is that they were so imperfect and rose above it. I tell you that gives me hope. That makes me get a little misty when I think about it.

  Sounds like you have a great heart. Like "perry" touch on, it bother you because you have a good heart condition.

  Keep it touch. Believe it or not you have helped me with my problems with god. You have incoraged me. Sometimes this site tends to be so negative about God it is hard for me to read. It tears me down and makes me sad. I like to hear there are those out there still trying after all that has happened to us from this religion.
• 

  GentlyFeral

  In a reductionist, literalist kind of way, the non-Christians on this thread are perfectly right about where Jesus' death stands on the scale of misery.

  But last week, I attended a black Baptist church where the preacher drew the entire congregation in to the death of Jesus, narrating every step at fever pitch. While he did not get graphic about the blood and pain, etc., we all connected to the suffering; we were all Simon of Cyrene; we were all the evildoer on the next cross.

  In a mystical way – if you can assume for a moment that "Jesus is God" somehow – the Crucifixion is how he takes part in all of our suffering. Jesus on the cross is every rape victim, everyone who was ever tortured, everyone who ever died in pain. To cry over Jesus' death is to cry over everybody's death. Pastor didn't say so, but he showed it.

  I think. Haven't studied theology; I can only try to make sense of my own experience.

  Edited to riff on Perry's comments:

  Because of justification you are totally forgiven by and pleasing to God. Fear of failure is no longer a concern.

  Because of reconciliation you are completely accepted by God. You have no need to fear rejection.

  Because of propitiation you are deeply loved by God and He calls you his son and friend.

  Because of regeneration, you have been made brand new in Christ and complete. He gently lives inside of you.

  Now this is actually very weird, because it describes my emotional state about The Divine almost exactly; and yet I can't say that I've had a distinct conversion experience. It hasn't occurred to me to call myself a Christian. In fact, after being a JW, I had to come to toward Jesus through paganism – to get my heart back.

  I notice you don't mention repentance – which is appropriate, because JW's spend their lives repenting of the things they're doing right.

  gently f eral