I accuse my wife of apostacy. Hilarity ensues.

by under_believer 44 Replies latest jw friends

  • bebu
    bebu

    I thought the exchange was quite interesting! Perfect way of pointing out a problem with WT myopia and its impractical application.

    It's possible to say some fairly strong things without being rude; expression, body language, tone of voice, etc., can make a difference. Knowing whether the relationship can handle it or not is also extremely important. Sounds like you can get her thinking, even if she is frustrated. It obviously makes her uncomfortable to admit that she is not really holding to the WTS theology, because it's either 110% with the WTS, or it's apostacy!

    ...BTW, could you post the references from the WTS for their assertion that all non-JWs WILL be killed? I might find this information a bit handy, myself...

    bebu

  • IP_SEC
    IP_SEC
    I was using the word "hilarity" in an ironic sense.



    Good! I was sure hoping that was the case.

    She did need to realize, though, that what she was saying technically qualifies as apostacy.

    Like I said I dont know your exact circumstance but I've been down that road with those conversations and they rarely end in a good way. 'cept maybe makeup sex You guys may not be at the point yet where you can say what you said with positive results.

    You got to reach the soul before the mind.

    Randy Watters had a good example on his site. I'll try and find it for you.

  • peggy
    peggy

    I am finding that many, if not all of the JW's have their OWN viewpoints that are contrary to what the Org. teaches. They associate with the Org. but when it comes to doctrine that is hard to take, such as 6 billion men, women and children dying, they soften the point. I think it is what keeps them going. I have had many discussions over the past few months. I have told a few that they are harboring apostate thoughts and according to the Org. if they disagree with a doctrine and share their thoughts with anyone, they ARE an APOSTATE!!! The fact that they will share this their views and discuss them with trusted family members is a GOOD sign.

  • IP_SEC
  • bebu
    bebu

    Actually, I am very curious how the daily text read. It sounds unbelievable! If it's short, could someone post it here? Or just the craziest parts of it?

    bebu

  • BizzyBee
    BizzyBee

    I think you handled it quite well - sometimes being direct is the only way with some people. Subtlety is wasted on them.

  • LovesDubs
    LovesDubs

    I think that arguing with my spouse and other JWs has caused me to abhor rollercoasters and other things that go AROUND AND AROUND AND AROUND and then make you PUKE.

    You always end up eating your tail and the Society has very carefully implanted the CYA answers to all protestations, accusations, and objections. (See your Reasoning From the Scriptures intro...and I use REASONING in the same light that you used hilarity. )

    But in the long run you have to laugh...you walk away from those exchanges and go "Damn...what just happened there?"

    Seeds get planted tho...indeedy do.

  • Severus
    Severus
    Actually, I am very curious how the daily text read. It sounds unbelievable! ; If it's short, could someone post it here? Or just the craziest parts of it?

    bebu

    Text for Saturday, July 08, 2006

    Saturday, July 8

    For

    this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth.—John 18:37.

    Jesus performed many miracles to demonstrate that he was the Messiah. He even raised the dead. Those works attracted the crowds, but Jesus did not come to earth merely to do a social work. He came to bear witness to the truth. He knew that any material benefits he provided were temporary. Even the resurrected ones would die again. Only by bearing witness to the truth could he help some to gain everlasting life. (Luke 18:28-30) Today, some individuals try to imitate Jesus’ good works by opening hospitals or performing other services among the world’s poor. In some cases, they do this at great personal cost, and their sincerity is commendable; but any relief they supply is temporary at best. Only the Kingdom will bring permanent relief. Hence, Jehovah’s Witnesses concentrate, as Jesus did, on bearing witness to the truth about that Kingdom. w 1/1/05 11, 19, 20a

  • under_believer
    under_believer

    IP_SEC, that if I am not mistaken is an early Jim Whitney piece. I have read it and it is good; it is definitely time to read it again. Thanks for the link, I had all but forgotten about that.

    bebu, as for the "only Witnesses will survive" citations, generally any time the Society talks about the "mark on the forehead" they are talking about baptism as a JW. Clearly Revelation indicates that only people with this mark will be spared God's wrath--so making it equal to JW baptism is a convenient way of tying the two concepts together. Here are some citations:

    *** kl chap. 18 p. 180 par. 21 Make It Your Aim to Serve God Forever ***
    21 A dedicated, baptized person faithfully endeavoring to follow Jesus is special to God. Jehovah examines all the billions of human hearts and knows how rare such individuals are. He considers them to be treasures, “desirable things.” (Haggai 2:7) Bible prophecies show that God views such ones as marked to survive the execution of his judgment soon to come upon this wicked system of things. (Ezekiel 9:1-6; Malachi 3:16, 18) Are you “rightly disposed for everlasting life”? (Acts 13:48) Is it your earnest desire to be marked as one serving God? Dedication and baptism are part of that mark, and they are essential for survival.

    Note that dedication and baptism are essential for survival?

    *** w88 9/15 p. 14 par. 18 Listen—Jehovah’s Watchman Speaks! ***
    18 The antitypical ‘man in linen’ is the class of anointed Christians. They go from house to house to put a symbolic mark on those who become part of the “great crowd” of Christ’s “other sheep.” The “mark” is the evidence that such sheep are dedicated, baptized individuals with a Christlike personality. They ‘sigh and groan over detestable things’ done in Christendom, and they have come out of Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion. (Revelation 18:4, 5) Their “mark” will make it plain to God’s executional forces that they should be spared during the “great tribulation.” They can retain that “mark” by sharing with the anointed ones in marking yet others. So, if you have been ‘marked,’ share zealously in the ‘marking’ work.—Ezekiel 9:8-11.

    This last one is some of the equivocation I spoke of earlier. Note that while baptism is required for survival, it does not guarantee it.

    *** w89 1/15 p. 20 pars. 20-21 How Baptism Can Save Us ***
    20 By our works, we can show that “we belong to Jehovah.” Why, salvation depends on working faithfully as his dedicated slaves! (Romans 6:20-23; 14:7, 8) In ancient times, slaves were often marked on the forehead. By the preaching work today, the antitypical ‘man clothed in linen’—the remnant of Jesus’ anointed followers—is ‘marking’ those who will survive the end of this system. In this work the anointed are assisted by their associates, the “other sheep.” (Ezekiel 9:1-7; John 10:16) And what is the “mark”? It is the evidence that we are dedicated to Jehovah and are Jesus’ baptized disciples who have a Christlike personality.
    21 Especially now is it vital that we have the “mark” and retain it, for we are deep into “the time of the end.” (Daniel 12:4) To be saved we must ‘endure to the end’ of our present life or of this system. (Matthew 24:13) Only if we thus remain faithful as witnesses of Jehovah will baptism save us.

  • bebu
    bebu

    Thanks for those references, severus and under_believer!

    bebu

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