Verbatim Court Transcript Maria Russell vs Charles Taze Russell

by Terry 23 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • james_woods

    Finally, we have something to lend credibility to the "masonic lodge & shriner parade" theory of the birth of this abbhorant religion.

    So, the eighth "trumpet" call was for the "reverand" Jimmy Swaggart? ( if only he was able to change a flat tire - we would maybe not have known ).

    Sorry to say it, but it is really about the only halfway normal sexual reference about a watchtower leader in the last 100 years.

    James - ( of the OHH wellll,,,, OK - I think I do like him a little better than the Judge Rutherford ) class ...

  • jgnat

    The first time I read the transcript, this is what struck me the most:

    "Suppose you are all right, don't you suppose people will talk about things like this?"

    So the foundation is, so goes the religion. The WTBTS has always first cared about their appearance. What is the cardinal sin of a practicing JW? To bring reproach on the organization, to make them look bad. It brings to mind whitewashed tombs and unclean cups. Matthew 23:25-27

  • Leolaia
    Is there more later on in the transcript that would discredit her testimony? If she recanted later on, was it under duress?

    What makes you think she recanted her testimony?


    yb75 p. 70 Part 1—United States of America ***

    In the suit for separate maintenance, Mrs. Russell’s attorney had said: "We make no charge of adultery." And that Mrs. Russell actually never believed her husband was guilty of immoral conduct was shown by the record (page 10). Her own counsel asked Mrs. Russell: "You don’t mean that your husband was guilty of adultery?" She answered: "No."

    The Society here leaves the impression that Maria denied her earlier claim that Pastor Russell was "guilty of immoral conduct" (e.g. the jellyfish story, his conduct with Miss Ball). But "adultery" and "immoral conduct" are not the same thing. Maria had not explicitly claimed that her husband voluntarily had sexual intercourse with Miss Ball or anyone else. She claimed that he "kissed and fondled her". As the Society now knows from their obession about "loose conduct", one can be "guilty of immoral conduct" without actually committing "adultery".

    Here is one detailed discussion of the case:

  • cathyk
    What makes you think she recanted her testimony?

    Aw, now I have to go and look up the section of Apocalypse Delayed where I think Penton claims that she later said that the "jellyfish" comment wasn't real ... Or maybe it was someone else's book, perhaps even one of the WT's books. I thought it was Penton, though. I'll get back to you on it.


  • moomanchu

    If Maria was lying about Roses addmition to her,

    Chuck would want Rose in the court room to destroy Marias testimony.

    Rose would want to be in court to clear her own name.

    She wasn't, something is very fishy .

    When was Rose sent to Aust. and what was the reason given ?

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Perhaps someone will be kind enough to refresh my memory: Who did Rose Ball marry?

  • cathyk

    Okay; I've gone back and looked at what I have read several years back, and realized that nothing states that Maria Russell ever recanted. Penton claims that the "jellyfish" testimony was disallowed, and makes the same faulty inference that the WT does: Maria didn't accuse him of *adultery*, therefore nothing bad really happened and she was just being vicious.

    Reading the court transcript for the first time, I was struck by the fact that Rose Ball was the one who provided Maria with the "jellyfish" statement, and that she wrote it out so that Maria would be able to quote it verbatim! I would assume that such a statement constituted "hearsay," which would explain it being disallowed. But -- a letter in the girl's own handwriting would have been invaluable. What happened to it? Was it entered into evidence at all?

    I cannot believe that Jim Penton, and Alan Rogerson (Millions Now Living Will Never Die), and a few other authors could read these statements (did they???) and come to the conclusion that M. Russell was just trying to get back at C. T.! They seem to think that because he was so immersed in "religious matters" that he wouldn't be interested in sex. Um, Jimmy Swaggart, anyone?

    The fact that Rose was providing aid to Mrs. Russell shows that Rose wasn't at all comfortable with C. T. Russell's attentions. I think the poor girl was as glad as anyone to get away from Mr. Russell in the end, even if she was initially flattered by his notice of her.



  • Leolaia

    To be objective and fair to Pastor Russell, we do lack proof that the allegations were true. I personally believe Maria and feel that it is unlikely that she made the story up, but the possibility cannot be entirely excluded either.

    Rose Ball married E. C. Henninges and both moved to Australia as pilgrims. But they split from Russell in 1909 over the New Covenant controversy. This was the first major schism in the Bible Students and Rose Ball was a key figure in it.

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Thanks, Leolaia!

    My personal belief is that it is indeed unfortunate that so many Russellites were so completely into passivity that they would not speak up against wrongdoing and so they allowed bad actors like CTR to get away with his public persona performance. I think many of these people went to their graves with stories left untold, thinking that somehow they were doing a sacred service. What they did was they obfuscated and delayed the revelation of objective historical truth in service to their "heroic" CTR.

    At it's root, CTR's message is very old baloney left out on a hot day for far too long. It had a nicer package than JFRs brand, but it stinks just the same.

  • Terry

    If you wish to have a pretty clear measure of the charismatic impact of Pastor Russell's personality on the people in the Bible Students movement just talk to any modern day member or visit the Pastor Russell website!

    This man is IT to them!

    They have not wavered one iota from anything Russell wrote for over a hundred years!!!!!

    He is the beginning and the end of what they publish, discuss and believe.

    That is truly astonishing!!

    I spent one evening a couple of years back with a local minister of the Bible Students religious movement.

    I had electric chills go up my spine as he stood in front of a large Dispensation Chart: THE DIVINE PLAN OF THE AGES and gave me a verbatim explanation of the various ages and what they represented.

    I can't begin to explain to you what an amazing experience that was!

    This was a very very nice man who lived alone with his son. He was a widower. He spent all his available time typesetting and laying out Russell's writings for publication. He had made a film of himself explaining the Divine Plan of Russell's which he paid out of his own pocket to run on local Cable Access.

    I bought a Divine Plan Book from him and went home and read it from cover to cover.

    I have to tell you--it damned near convinced me!!

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