Greg Stafford releases JWD 3 (page 2)

skeptic2

I second the motion that the post is by Greg Stafford, and extend the motion to describe said post as 'spam'.

skeptic2

Backing up my point about spam:http://www.channelc.org/cgi-bin/eboard30/index2.cgi?frames=yes&board=Main&mode=Current&message=20874

Hellrider

I know that most of us as ex-JW’s still hold to some of the doctrinal teachings of the WT with respect to the name Jehovah and the Trinity, so Stafford’s current position I believe represents where most of us are at, agreeing with certain WT teachings that are clearly articulated in the bible,

?? Most of the ex-jws? I don`t think so. And the wording in your post, such as "agreeing with certain WT teachings that are clearly articulated in the bible" just reeks of Watchtower-indoctrination. The only thing (the only!!!) the Watchtower ever got right, was their emphasis on the physical ressurection of the dead. But even on this one point that they got right, the rest of "christendom" are not in disagreement, they just don`t mention it that often. The rest of Watchtower-dogma is just crap, including the anti-trinitarian view.

Daniel Michaels

Greeting AuldSOul Thank you for you post I didnt mean to inply that all ex JW's still beleive all of the teachings of thw WT religion, but many of them do still carry with them SOME of the teachings, for example, there just was jsut today a post in the beliefs section a post about how long the brainwashing stays with you after you leave, from a poster who years after leaving was still worried about armageddon coming soon. I personally have been out for 3 years now, and have helped over a dozen of my friends to get out, and get e-mails from JW's around the world, and try to help out as many JW's as possible to get out. My wife and I had to move out of state to avoid being DF'ed for not believing the teachings anymore. I know from my own experience as well as listening to and talking to many other ex JW's that it takes years and years to get out of the JW mind set of beliefs and more on. Many seem to leave very bitter and hateful of religion, others turn to atheism or the Catholic faith for support. SInce JW's are not taught the art of critical thinking, many when they leave have trouble expressing there thoughts and react with emotion and simply attck the person making comments, as seen in some of the post above. I am not Greg Stafford, in fact, I dont agree with many of the ideas that Stafford defends, and think that he was far to nice to the Watchtower in his 'Three disserations on the Teachings of the JW's' publication. Nor is what I wrote 'spam' since I worte it myself a few days ago, and it is based upon my life, my experiences, my thoughts, and my desire to help other JW's who are going through the same experiences we all go through who have left. I post on a few ex-JW web sites, so as to reach more people. For example, read what I posted about the Watchtower and mind control in the Beliefs section here a few days ago, and yes I did post it on more forems than this one. JWD is just one among many sites dedicated to helping JW's become free of the organizations teachings and control, and anyone who thinks that one can only post on one site or what hey write is 'spam' is simply mistaken and has a very narrow mindset, something that they seem to be holding onto from their days in the WT. We all as Ex JW's carry with us differant ideas and theologies, and we should all be able to come together and respectfully communicate with each other about both our experiences and thoughts. Many of us have lost many frineds and family, and need the support from others who have been affected by the Watchtower and its practices. What I stated, and I will clearify, is that many JW's when they leave carry with them from the WT what they think the WT was correct about that the bible does in fact teach, while rejecting the many claims that the Watchtower makes that are not in the bible. I certianly still hold to the WT teachings that the bible is the Word of God, that Jesus is the Son of God, that Christ died to save sinners, that we are saved by faith in Christ, that Christian should love one another, that Gods name is Jehovah, that Christ will one day return, that we will all be judged, ect.. However reject that the WT is Gods sole means of communication, that only the WT can understand the bible, that the 'other sheep' are not the Gentiles, that only the Witnesses will be saved, that Christ came in 1914, that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607, that there will be a resurrection of Christians on earth, that the bible was only written to 144,000, that birthdays are pagan, that the WT is the 'faithfull and discreet slave; that bible propecy talks at all about the Watchtowers history, that Chrit is only the medator of the 144,000, just to list a few things. Well it was nice to meet you, thank you for your responce AliveinChrist AliveinChrist, Welcome. I agree with Poztate, although I wouldn't have worded it quite that way. But, you know how those Canadians are known for being rude . I don't know an answer to everything, but I can compare the core doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses just as critically against the Bible as Jehovah's Witnesses can manage with any other organized religion. What I mean is, I don't know the truth about everything, nor do I claim to, but I do know that if anyone claims that the core doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses are based on the Bible they are supporting and promoting a lie. Respectfully, AuldSoul

yaddayadda

Despite no longer being a JW and having read anti-JW doctrine material for years, I remain convinced that the JW's have got it spot on re the trinity, no hellfire, and no inherently immortal soul. It's just a pity there is so much creedal crap in amongst that lot.

Marvin Shilmer

AliveinChrist / Daniel Michaels

I am forced to wonder why you post under two different names here at JWD. Though your contributions appear honest and straightforward, why do you post under different names?

Marvin Shilmer

chasson

Greg Stafford who has left the JW a time, has come back on a "limited basis"?

http://www.elihubooks.com/greg-stafford/another.htm

Bye

Charles

AliveinChrist

Greeting Marvin,

I t’s good to hear from you, I haven’t seen any of your post for some time. I greatly enjoyed your post concerning the blood issue that took place some time ago. Do you make any contributions at all to any web sites with your articles?

To answer your questions, I don’t know how the way that I sign my articles makes any difference to the ideas that I post. I usually try to sign simply using the title 'AliveinChrist' instead of a personal name. If I have signed as 'Daniel Michaels' in any of my resent post, than that was an oversight on my part.

I am pretty sure at least that I have most resently signed my posts as 'AliveinChrist.' From years of dealing with the JW apologist online, all too often the focus with them is not on the substance of the material being presented, but rather the focus is usually on the identity of the person himself, and all too often the JW and those ex JW's who still suffer from years of JW training in argumentation will simply attack the person, completely ignoring the material and the ideas.

I saw this happen to you when you were asking your question about where the bible allows the distinction over various fractions. Therefore I think that instead of using a name, I will use an idea, namely, that a person when he or she leaves the WT and turns to Christ, he will be free and alive, therefore, AliveinChrist.

Nice to hear from you

In Christ,

AliveinChrist

[email protected]

drew sagan

The problem that so many people make is that they seek to challenge and divide people over matters that are of no importance. The same basic attitude is amognst such people as Greg Stafford, the Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholicism, or the Mormons is all the same. Groups that wish to exalt and dominate others with debate and division because of their dogma.
If one would simply look at the Bible as a tool that God has used to send you the message of his son these books and divisions would not exisist. Please consider Romans 14:4
"Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand."
Each individual makes his choice to serve the master. In doing so they choose to live their life in faith, and to respect the two greatest commandments, to love God and to love your fellow man. To realize that they cannot save themselves and that they need their savior. That is most important message. Debate and challenge is good, but not like this. It makes Christians feel contemptment for one another, instead of drawing them closer to unity in Christ. People can recognize that the differances will allways be their untill their Lord returns.

Greg Stafford releases JWD 3

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