The quantum of cruelty - were they that way without the JW?

by james_woods 15 Replies latest jw friends

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  james_woods

  This idea came about after reading several very disturbing but sincere personal "issue" threads over the last few days...but I am going to blame Blondie for galvanizing the idea! She wrote - (in the topic "would a devout JW go to a DF funeral?") -

  I think there are some very cruel people who love to use the WTS policies to deliberately hurt family members, perhaps to make themselves seem more holy in God's sight or more likely in the sight of other JWs.

  My conjecture is this: perhaps there is something going on with the JW culture which actually attracts really mean people to this religion. These cruel people grow in influence, prospering inside the organization (body of elders, GB, etc.) and in turn make the religion itself more cruel. I will call this human character the "quantum of cruelty". I believe that people who have it are made worse by the JW religion, and they in turn make the JW religion itself worse by their presence.

  I offer as evidence the sad experiences with family related by both NaruNaruChan and Cabin in the Woods within the past week. Both relate family issues which basically come down to a really mean dominant doing a control freak on a relatively non-confrontational (but nicer) person, and using the JW rhetoric to back themselves up with it. In both cases, (and in my own family experiences), could we really say that the bad players were only that way because of the witnesses? Or, more likely, IMHO - were they not pretty mean people in the first place? People who really needed a religion to make them more kind rather than more angry, judgemental and controlling...

  The history of this religion speaks to the possibility of this also - Russel had faults, was false prophet, etc...but look at the greater horrors that followed when the mad dictator Rutherford followed in his steps. Is today's governing body making itself and their people more kind and "Christian", or are they seeking ever greater powers of control and abuse? When they saw the voice of reason and humility from Ray Franz, what action did they take?

  Is it any surprise that the result is a core membership that also behaves this way? And that new converts already have that quantum of cruelty in their heart (as we all probably do), but are having it made worse by their indoctrination?

  James
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  Satanus

  Could be. It's the nature nurture tug of war.

  S
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  CaptainSchmideo

  
  I know a very smug and sanctimonious sister who converted to JWism from Baptist, I guess. She said the hardest thing for her to give up was belief in Hellfire. I guess the idea of a burning hell appeals to people when they contemplate the fate awaiting those that they feel have wronged them in life.

  But, as a Witness, we have disfellowshipping! Even better than Hell, because now vengeful ones can see the sufferings of those poor souls who sit in the back, cut off from family and friends, trying desperately to toe the line and get back in the good graces. It must give great satisfaction to such mean-hearted people.
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  Lady Lee

  I'm going to offer up some theories and conjectures -- which may or may not be applicable.

  In the literature about about people who have been abused or were exposed to family violence there is a strong risk that as adults they will become involved with other people who were exposed to abuse as children. Together they repeat the pattern of abuse in their own family. The term used for this is the intergenerational cycle of abuse.

  The rationale for this is that people are attracted to what they know. They have developed the required coping skills to feel most comfortable in certain situations. For those who have not been able to learn other coping skills there seems to be a unconscious need to try to change things. They have a need for control that they never had as children so becoming involved with others from abusive families gives them an opportunity to make it right this time. This operates on a flawed belief that they were somehow responsible for the problems.

  This does not mean they WILL recreate their family but the risk is higher.

  What we know about abusive families is that they use the exact same control techniques as cults use to control people. Therefore it is reasonable that for some people entering a cult feels like "home": lots of rules, harsh discipline.

  I think this really applies in my family. Both my parents came from highly dysfunctional families: physical, emotional and sexual abuse. My mother left my father before I was 10 yrs old. She went off and joined the JWs. The controls of the WTS are familiar to her. Because she was raised with so much abuse she got involved with 3 men who were pedophiles and abusers. And she got involved with an abusive organization.

  The religion did not make her better. It reinforced the harsh realities she grew up with.

  This might not apply to everyone but I certainly think it apples to some
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  LDH

  My conjecture is this: perhaps there is something going on with the JW culture which actually attracts really mean people to this religion.

  absolutely. I've said it before. This is a religion of CHILD-HATERS.

  Old dried up men who have never had their own children, treating them as chattal.

  Even active members who have children take their cue from the "governing body" so that natural affection and natural relationships are warped.

  Lisa
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  Big Tex

  Could be. It's the nature nurture tug of war.

  Chicken or egg. Same difference I guess.

  Were they cruel before and attracted a mean spirited, high control sect, or did joining that sort environment bring out the worst?

  I lean more toward the former than the latter. Water seeks its own level; birds of a feather (anything else I can quote?)
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  james_woods

  Please note that I was not trying to say that all JW converts are mean-spirited. But experience indicates to me that this religion seems to have a real propensity for attracting troubled people. A lot of the people who came in from the outside in my day were already screwed up by some misfortune in life. This is hardly a religion which can assist people with existing pschylogical problems!

  That comparison to family abuse repeating itself is well taken.

  Maybe this is also why there is such a problem with child abuse. I used to think that this was just an anomoly here and there - but after reading the many cases here on JWD, I am starting to suspect it is way more common than I could have ever believed.
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  under_believer

  I believe there are some people who are attracted to the religion because it fits their personality.
  But I think the structure and heirarchy itself specifically CAUSES cruelty and oppression. It's set up that way and there is no way to avoid it. If you want to be a good Witness and follow all the rules it RESULTS in cruelty.
  Any human system that puts humans over other humans, with no oversight and no checks and balances, will always be rife with abuse. It's a sad fact of human nature.
  The only way of fixing this would be to go to a completely flat organizational style, OR to seriously redesign the power structure in such a way that "lay" groups have oversight of elder bodies, similar to a presbyterian governance style.
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  Scully

  perhaps there is something going on with the JW culture which actually attracts really mean people to this religion.

  What we know about abusive families is that they use the exact same control techniques as cults use to control people. Therefore it is reasonable that for some people entering a cult feels like "home": lots of rules, harsh discipline.

  I have a feeling that this is one of the things that attracted my parents to the JWs initially. It's a very structured environment, with high expectations for compliant behaviour, and punishment of varying degrees for non-compliant behaviour.

  I also believe that "really mean people" who become JWs do so in order to absolve themselves (in their own minds and in the minds of their JW peers) of responsibility for their actions. They excuse their meanness and abuse by saying that it is necessary to meet God's Requirements™, or that they are following the Bible™, etc. When in a group of like-minded individuals, corporal punishment of a child is not just accepted behaviour, but expected behaviour, and it is reinforced with rewards for following the group's leanings. If, for example, you have some folks with new-fangled ideas that hitting kids is wrong, it starts to make the group look bad, so those folks get ostracised for non-compliant behaviour within the group.
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  asleif_dufansdottir

  I think that the JW environment justifies and absolves cruelty for those who are inclined that way, and makes them worse (have seen it happen with some who joined - bad before, much worse after). For men especially, it enforces that "I own you" mindset. Out in the real world, there is more likely to be consequences for abusers, and they know it and (sometimes) behave accordingly, but in the JWs, for those who are inclined to abuse after they get away with (or are applauded for) first emotional and then verbal and then physical abuse. I think it makes them worse.