14 Nissan

by strypes 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • strypes

    Thank you,

    So that is why Mark answered that he passes the cup because his destination is earth..because only the 144000 will be in heaven..

    This is really sad. Earlier in that chapter you referenced in luke, It is very specific that Jesus was sharing a passover sader (meal) with the deciples. There are four cups of wine consumed during a sader. the first is the cup of blessing (Sanctification) at the very begining of the meal. The second is the cup of plagues. consumed before the meal during the time of the retelling of the story of the exodus.Then the meal is eaten. AFTER the meal the third cup is consumed. It is THE CUP OF REDEMPTION. The last cup, the cup of Praise, is the last of the four. The deep significance of each of these ( and everything else regarding passover) can be found at most Messanic Jewish sites. I don't know if links are allowed here but it is the third cup that "AFTER THE MEAL" Jesus took and said...

    Luke 22:19 And he took the bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me" 20 In the same way, AFTER THE SUPER, he took the cup, saying "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you."

    The significance of THAT peice of bread in the passover sader(The Afikoman) could start a discussion of the triune nature of God.. ...

    back to the cup..

    That cup is "THE CUP OF REDEMPTION" The covenant in Jesus' blood is not for only the 144000. his blood was shed to REDEEM us. All of us who call on his name.

    By the logic you gave, as the belief of the JWS, then the cup is only for the 144000 then the millions of witnesses dishonor the blood of their redemption by "passing it"..

    How do I get through to my friend?

  • Narkissos


    The formal parallelism between the Eucharist story in the Eastern-Alexandrine tradition of Luke (the Western manuscripts and versions do not have the "cup after the meal") and the rabbinical tradition of the Passover seder is certainly interesting, but it hardly provides a global explanation for all the varying early Eucharistic traditions (1 Corinthians, Mark, Matthew, Didachè etc.).

    One question you might ask about Luke 22:29f (a key text for the WT interpretation, because of the "kingdom" saying) is:

    Who is Jesus really addressing? -- The "apostles" (v. 14, "the "twelve" according to Mark and Matthew). The parallel to v. 30 in Matthew 19:28 (in a non-Eucharistic setting), and some manuscripts of Luke, indicate twelve thrones.

    Who are they to judge?
    The "twelve tribes of Israel". Now that's interesting, because (using the JW's own intertextual connection) the 144,000 are the "twelve tribes of Israel". But by Luke 22:30, the twelve tribes describe the judged ones and not the judges, the subjects and not the kings.

    Bottom line: if Luke 22:29f were to determine who is admitted to partake in the Eucharistic meal, the only possible answer would be: the apostles. Then the practice should have ended over 1,900 years ago.

  • strypes

    thank you!

    I have lots of other questions. Would you be willing to help me?

  • Sad emo
    Sad emo

    Hi strypes

    If you have a look through the 'best of' section (hopefully I got the right link!):


    You may find the answers to a lot of your questions already there. There are quite a few doctrinal threads included there.

  • greendawn

    There is no real Biblical basis for an earthly and a heavenly class there is only one saviour and one body or church and one destination, and the number 144000 is clearly symbolic.

    Rutherford was a lawyer and not a man trained in religion and his religious ideas are very dubious to say the least.

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