Ok guys, this is long, so I am sorry, but I think it is important to publish.
This is a glimpse into a 4 page letter (love that song) from my uber elder uncle. As some of you may know I got tired of being in an email chain and finally lost it and lashed out. Dropped some criticism. I got this in response, I have cut a lot out and just tried to include what I feel are the highlights. I have also included some definitions of fallacies, I know there are a lot more but I cant spend the rest of my day working on this. I would love for people to pick their favorite part and give there thoughts.
Like i said, this a snapshot into the mind of witnesses.
Appreciates how I feel (sounds like a demo on at the service meeting, your jedi mind tricks don’t work on me)
My stand makes him veryx2 sad, oh and not just sad for me, also sad for wife. (it’s funny my uncle and my brother both assumed I am hiding this from my wife which is to the contrary, shows witnesses presumptuousness)
Also sad for my whole family because they love me (ok….what’s the problem)
I have distinctly Luciferian learnings in what I say (don’t think learnings is a word like that. Also standard witness move to try to label you, and put you into a category, “if you aren’t this you have to be that!” years of training that everything needs an answer everything needs to be absolute)
I don’t think you are an atheist. (I am)
I don’t even think you deny Jehovah, I just think you don’t like him, perhaps hate him? (well if I believed in YHWH I guess I just might)
Defines Luciferian ideas (learnings) (did my own research, I’d hang out with a Luciferian!)
Went on and on in very sarcastic arrogant manner “Godists (if I may coin a term)” (sounds like George W Bush, you could make up a work Godists I guess, but they already are called theists)
God, being the well-documented sadist that he is, no doubt wanted to keep Lucifer around so that he could punish him and try to get him back under his (God’s) power. Probably what really happened was that Lucifer came to hate God’s kingdom, his sadism, his demand for slavish conformity and obedience, his psychotic rage at any display of independent thinking and behavior. Lucifer realized that he could never fully think for himself and could certainly not act on his independent thinking so long as he was under God’s control. Therefore he left Heaven, that terrible spiritual-State ruled by the cosmic sadist Jehovah, and was accompanied by some of the angels who had had enough courage to question God’s authority and his value-perspective. Sound familiar? Feel familiar? (these are his words not mine lol)
Think maybe I am involved with secret fraternities or mystery religion (been involved with one for 35 years that is now known as JW.ORG!)
You’ve placed yourself firmly in Satan’s camp. (1 Co 2:11) (More standard witness diatribe, I think, I question, therefore I am the worst thing possible. False Dilemma/Dichotomy - Sometimes referred to as Bifurcation, this type of fallacy occurs when someone presents their argument in such a way that there are only two possible options. For example: “If you don’t vote for this candidate, you must be a Communist.”)
I’ve embraced Satan’s values (I have bad value’s because I don’t get them from a religion, love that: False Dilemma/Dichotomy - Sometimes referred to as Bifurcation, this type of fallacy occurs when someone presents their argument in such a way that there are only two possible options. For example: “If you don’t vote for this candidate, you must be a Communist.”)
Satan decided to seduce Eve away with the promise of “being like God,’ that she could choose to do what was good according to her point of view, and what did that get her? Death for her and every human ever born. (I really love this thinking “look what that got her!” what god did to her more like. If you tell a child not to touch a stove because its hot, and they do, and now they have a burnt hand, that’s “look what they got”. If you tell a child to not pick their nose, and they do it anyway, then you take them and put their hand on a stove and burn it, you can’t say “look what that got them!”. That is now considered cruelty. (fallacy: Proof by verbosity (argumentum verbosium, proof by intimidation) – submission of others to an argument too complex and verbose to reasonably deal with in all its intimate details: Begging the Question - This type of fallacy is when the conclusion of an argument is assumed in the phrasing of the question itself. )
SATAN, this Luciferian “force for good,” their hero, is responsible for every death in history. Every single death. This is who you admire more than Jehovah? And Jehovah and His people are the liars? (again making a solid judgment and complete thought FOR ME. Love this cult stuff. “this is who you admire more than YHWH”. Begging the Question - This type of fallacy is when the conclusion of an argument is assumed in the phrasing of the question itself.)
He claimed he had a better way, but he destroyed humanity before bringing it to his father, so Jehovah said “go ahead. Prove it.” You know the rest of the story. (fallacy: Proof by verbosity (argumentum verbosium, proof by intimidation) – submission of others to an argument too complex and verbose to reasonably deal with in all its intimate details)
Starts talking about Satan’s track record (again I am saying no god, thus no satan this is a waste of argument)
Let’s see… Cain? the first murder. (funny I thought Cain murdered Able, guess it was Satan)
Satan goaded the angles into coming to earth resulting in the Nephilim and the earth “became filled with violence” to the extent that it was ruined in Jehovah’s sight. Nice. ( So god causes a global genocide, not just of violent men, but everything, because the earth was ruined… ok, what was going on through most of the OT? Sounds pretty violent, if it wasn’t the Israelites it was the people they were killing, everyone sounded pretty violent. And did Satan goad them?)
How about the Assyrians… no need to get graphic, but one text describes them as “masters of brutality. (Master’s of brutality sounds like a scary title, kinda like ‘God of War’ or ‘YHWH of Armies’.
”Canaanites? Ritual sacrifice of babies, throwing them into sacrificial fires alive. (Fact: Canaanites worshiped YHWH. “All those calling on the name of….)
Modern times? Pol-Pot in Cambodia, Hitler, on and on and on it goes with life under this “influence for good!” And it continues today. And not just on a national level; what about human trafficking, sex slavery, gang brutality and the coolest and most respectable one of all, the mafia. (Association Fallacy - Sometimes called "guilt by association," this occurs when someone links a specific idea or practice with something or someone negative in order to infer guilt on another person.
For example: “Hitler was a vegetarian, therefore, I don’t trust vegetarians.” Also Argumentum ad hominem)
TO COMPARE JEHOVAH’S RIGHTEOUS JUDICIAL DECISIONS TO INFANTICIDE IS OBSCENE! TO CALL JEHOVAH A MURDERER IS OFFENSIVE. Never never ever did Jehovah require ritual killing of innocents. However, there were times that he ordered the extermination of the residents of a city. Let’s examine those situations: (this will be fun)
• Firstly, these were NOT murders, they were executions. (how about when satan asked his permission to kill job’s kids on a bet, by the way the only 10 murders in the bible satan is directly guilty of. Buy saying go ahead, wasn’t god aiding in murder? Or were these just executions?)
• Even in this country those who murder are sometimes executed. (true, but what for? Didn’t god kill thousands for “murmuring”? Essentially complaining. Or offering illegitimate fire? Or bowing down to a gold calf? I might find that a stupid thing to do, but I would not wish death on someone for it. Or just being from a different city, or having different views? Or the kids and the bear? If all the brats were murdered by God I think most of us wouldn’t be here. What deserves execution?)
• There is a profound difference between execution and murder; legal basis. Who has the ultimate legal basis to order an execution? Jehovah. (then no matter what someday he is going to “execute me” because something I do is YHWH-Illegal. Moses apparently did so much, he makes an error, God pulls his card, woops, almost made it, let me teach you a lesson! Fun fun fun)
• As sinners each one of us earns death every day. (argument from omniscience: (e.g., All people believe in something. Everyone knows that.) An arguer would need omniscience to know about everyone's beliefs or disbeliefs or about their knowledge. Beware of words like "all," "everyone," "everything," "absolute." argument from adverse consequences: (e.g., We should judge the accused as guilty, otherwise others will commit similar crimes) Just because a repugnant crime or act occurred, does not necessarily mean that a defendant committed the crime or that we should judge him guilty. (Or: disasters occur because God punishes non-believers; therefore, we should all believe in God) Just because calamities or tragedies occur, says nothing about the existence of gods or that we should believe in a certain way. argumentum ad baculum: An argument based on an appeal to fear or a threat. (e.g., If you don't believe in God, you'll burn in hell,)
• It is only out of love that Jehovah made provision for a way out for those that want it, those who actively reject the Luciferian world view. (this also is a tactic used not just by religions, but communist governments to induce brain washing, guilt guilt guilt guilt, break, but we have a solutions, salvation! It’s a formula for control)
• Jehovah didn’t send the Jews throughout the earth to execute babies. (but they did)
• There was a specific land that needed to be cleaned up in order to provide a place for His holy nation to be established; Canaan. (kind of like the ISIS caliphate?)
• The Canaanites religious practices were despicable! Ritual baby murder year after year after year, orgies as fertility rites where underage girls were abused; Yet Jehovah told Abraham that his descendants wouldn’t get to take the land for another 400 years because He could see the tack they were taking and their badness would reach it’s full extent by that time. (so YHWH wanted to give them time to get really bad? Sounds loving. Things are really bad now but just wait 400 years! Then its going to be really bad.)
• The Gibeonites sued for peace and were allowed to live as servants of Jehovah. How nice, guess they did it for the right reasons, they must have loved YHWH and not been scared to be hacked to pieces by the Hebrew)
• Once the land was conquered the wars ceased except for some defensive actions. Any time the Israelites tried to go to war on their own terms, when it was not a judicial decision from Jehovah, they were punished with failure. (then they were the ones being murdered… er um… executed)
• Looking at this from a human perspective won’t work; you have to be able to zoom out and see the big picture (Isa 55:9). (special pleading: the assertion of new or special matter to offset the opposing party's allegations. A presentation of an argument that emphasizes only a favorable or single aspect of the question at issue. (e.g. How can God create so much suffering in the world? Answer: You have to understand that God moves in mysterious ways and we have no privilege to this knowledge. Or: Horoscopes work, but you have to understand the theory behind it.)
• They will have an opportunity to wake up in a world free of Luciferian influence and his despicable Canaanite, God dishonoring, religious practices and gain everlasting life! This is a gift from the God you despise! Satan offers nothing but annihilation and everlasting destruction, and he knows it! (Re 12:12) (*sigh* Straw man – an argument based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.)
Now, let’s talk about bloodlust and destruction. Destruction first: We know what is going to happen, we just don’t know when. We know that, just like the promised land, in order to have a truly righteous society you have to populate it with righteous people. One of the lessons of the promised land was that you can’t legislate righteousness. You can’t legislate love and fairness. (Two wrongs make a right – occurs when it is assumed that if one wrong is committed, another wrong will cancel it out. Also saying WE KNOW, WE KNOW, WE KNOW Petitio principii (Begging the question) This fallacy occurs when the premises are at least as questionable as the conclusion reached. Typically the premises of the argument implicitly assume the result which the argument purports to prove, in a disguised form. For example: "The Bible is the word of God. The word of God cannot be doubted, and the Bible states that the Bible is true. Therefore the Bible must be true.)
People who love righteousness will populate New World, (I’ll spare this long diatribe.)
Now… a righteous people or a “good” people? Gigantic difference there! Good as defined by…? Luciferian thought would be that “good people” are those that are good according to your values. We look at the world and see lots and lots of “good” people, particularly as compared to the truly evil people out there. But are they good from God’s standpoint or your standpoint or Satan’s? We have to define and measure it against BIBLE standards. (can’t be good without God)
In reality, the only ones that are suitable to populate that righteous new world have to be righteous people, and that is very different from merely “good.” Grandpa used to say “dead people are good. They don’t hurt anyone, they don’t commit any sin… but they aren't righteous.” Righteousness is an active quality; rather than absence of bad it involves actively doing what is good toward God and man. So when Armageddon arrives it will eliminate all who do not want to be there. You could illustrate it with Amnesty; suppose amnesty were offered to all illegals who were willing to apply for it and meet the requirements of citizenship. Does that somehow make it unjust, then, to deport those that don’t care enough to apply or work at meeting the requirements of citizenship? OF COURSE NOT! So it will be at armageddon. All those who don’t want to conform to God’s standard of righteousness are simply not invited. Their death sentence, both inherited and earned, will be expedited. (cant wait to hear what some of you have to say about this. Anecdotal fallacy - using a personal experience or an isolated example instead of sound reasoning or compelling evidence.)
But those of us who truly know Jehovah are 100% confident that Jehovah has examined their hearts and presented them with multiple opportunities to embrace him. (Ge 18:23-33) (Argumentum ad numerum: This fallacy is closely related to the argumentum ad populum. It consists of asserting that the more people who support or believe a proposition, the more likely it is that that proposition is correct. For example: "The vast majority of people in this country believe that capital punishment has a noticeable deterrent effect. To suggest that it doesn't in the face of so much evidence is ridiculous.""All I'm saying is that thousands of people believe in pyramid power, so there must be something to it.")
How dare you accuse me and the rest of my family (including your precious wife) and brotherhood of bloodlust! HOW DARE YOU BE SO IGNORANT AND UNCARING! (Yes my loving Jehovahs Witness Elder Uncle told me this. Lets start with the fallacies: Straw man – an argument based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. Argumentum ad hominem – the evasion of the actual topic by directing an attack at your opponent.)
I genuinely believe that I could have gone wherever I wanted in this world very successfully. But I don’t have tailored suites and a $5,000+ watch to flaunt because I have the OPPOSITE of blood lust! I have devoted so much of my life to searching for and teaching those who want to live there! (also a personal attack on me. Any fallacies for this one? Argumentum ad lazarum: The fallacy of assuming that someone poor is sounder or more virtuous than someone who's wealthier. This fallacy is the opposite of the Argumentum ad Crumenam. For example: "Monks are more likely to possess insight into the meaning of life, as they have given up the distractions of wealth."
I work tirelessly assisting those in the congregation to stay on an even keel. I drive 2 ó hours to study with deaf prison inmates, people that society at large have thrown away as valueless, and I see them improving their lives to become righteous people that will hopefully escape their divine death sentence and learn to be productive people. I have given up worship in my own heart language to help the Deaf, who have only begun to have the Bible in their language since 2005; the deaf that so many, including their own families, write off as being not worth the trouble. I have seen individuals truly change their lives as a…. (this goes on and on so I will keep it short. Moral high ground fallacy – in which one assumes a "holier-than-thou" attitude in an attempt to make oneself look good to win an argument.
you feel “lied to…” it is, in actuality because Jehovah doesn't desire any to be destroyed… and you are claiming dismay that it has delayed out of one side of your mouth and accusing “bloodlust for global genocide” out of the other. A bit hypocritical, don’t you think? More straw man… a complete twist on what I am saying, calling me a hypocrite on something you have made up by completely missing my point)
So… when your mom mentioned the “sudden and bloody destruction of Babylon the Great,” THAT BLOODY DESTRUCTION is going to come at the hands of your Luciferian governments! (wait who is behind it again???)
When Jesus and his angels prosecute the final execution it will not be a drawn out and torturous affair; it will be swift and just, NOT by my standards BUT BY JEHOVAH’S! (Like the flood???)
“Global genocide of unbelievers?” NO! Execution of those unrepentantly entrenched in their devotion to a wicked, Luciferian world model! (cult)
In fact, their final act before that takes place will be to try to murder all of us; your family and former brotherhood! Will you be with them or with us? (False dilemma (false dichotomy, fallacy of bifurcation, black-or-white fallacy) – two alternative statements are held to be the only possible options, when in reality there are more.
In fact, you accuse us of bloodlust?! I accuse you of apathy. (and we all know the great sin of Apathy is worthy of eternal destruction at God’s hands)
Knowing what they are facing, knowing the hopelessness of so many in the world today, knowing the angst of battling this system, but not yet knowing why these things are happening, what are you doing to help them? How productive is your ministry? How earnest are you in trying to help. Not much, is my guess; (more moral or supposed moral high ground. Also strong percussion complex, my family is famous for, everything is because of Satan ala The Chruch Lady.)
if you despise God and His people it’s not likely you're going to put much energy into attracting them to. (never said I despised any person, and by making a despising comment about god I was not inferring that he is real, just the danger of the idea of him)
Who is guilty; those who know what is coming and are doing all they can to reach everyone in every nation and language, or those who know and just don’t give a darn? More and more false dichotomy, pic a side quick!)
To do so would put a crimp in your pursuit of riches. You have replaced the love of Jehovah, Jesus and your family with love of money and bad associates (even though I understand they are “good” people as far as Satan’s system is concerned.) (this has more straw man in it that the Wizard of Oz.)
I have a challenge for you; put Jehovah to the test. Take a year and really really, for the first time in your life, immerse yourself in study and service. Get help from the older men when it comes to your doubts. Pioneer for a year. (no chance! Been there done that, the biggest thing that has made me an atheist is the bible and studying it, I can say that for a certainty)
Ask you boss for a religious sabbatical to do that, and see how much he loves you, Anthony… or is it just your ability to make him money? (well… I am my own boss….so….)
Do I look forward to that time being behind us? Do I ever! My beautiful wife is in nonstop neuropathic pain that has robed her of the joy in life, the ability to work, to recreate, to travel; COME LORD JESUS! I miss my daddy every single day; COME LORD JESUS!
My sweet mommy and so many others are losing their grip on reality and slipping away in dementia; COME LORD JESUS! People are suffering crippling and debilitating and excruciating disease; COME LORD JESUS! Being murdered in hideous ways in order to induce terror; COME LORD JESUS! Do I apologize for any of this? Never! (Nirvana fallacy (perfect solution fallacy) – when solutions to problems are rejected because they are not perfect.)
It is all occurring because of what Satan set in motion and I will not support him in any way nor those who love his way of thinking or doing things. (Association Fallacy - Sometimes called "guilt by association," this occurs when someone links a specific idea or practice with something or someone negative in order to infer guilt on another person.
For example: “Hitler was a vegetarian, therefore, I don’t trust vegetarians.” Also Argumentum ad hominem)
I hope you will really consider this and pray about it. (that will help)
Please don’t let the tone of this letter make you think that I don’t love you. (yes I know its just that special conditional witness love)