Scriptures You Will Not Hear at the 25-06-06 Church Sermon.

by scout575 11 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  scout575

  "But if ye BITE and DEVOUR one another, take heed that ye not be consumed one of another." ( Galatians 5:15 )

  "And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but TATLERS also and BUSYBODIES, speaking things which they ought not." ( 1 Timothy 5:13 )

  " From whence come WARS and FIGHTINGS among you? Come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? Ye LUST, and have not: Ye KILL, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: Ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not." ( James 4:1,2 )

  Despite claims of having the, 'fruit of the spirit' ( Galatians 5:22 ), Christians are no nicer or nastier than non-Christians.
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  the_classicist

  And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased. I would they were even cut off which trouble you. -- Galatians 5:11-12.

  More modern translations consider "cut off" to be a joke about castration.
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  AuldSoul

  It wasn't technically a joke so much as it was an exaggeration of reaction to indicate how incensed the writer was at the conduct just described, but yes...it was referring to castration.

  scout575: Despite claims of having the, 'fruit of the spirit' ( Galatians 5:22 ), Christians are no nicer or nastier than non-Christians.

  I think you have either misunderstood the "claim" or you have misunderstood who it is that has fruit of the spirit. Anyone can slap a label of Christian on anyone else or anything. But someone who has fruit of the spirit will be different. And Galatians makes no special rule about who would have the fruit of spirit being required to be Christians. He did, however, say that those who are Christians would not be still practicing works of the flesh.

  There is a difference between someone's character and life being largely defined by works of the flesh and someone's character and life being largely defined by the spirit's fruitage. And we also aren't talking about the put-on kind that gets trotted out on Sundays and set on a shelf after church, that would still be a work of the flesh.

  Ordinarily, I leave your threads alone. But in this case I think you are taking Scriptures out of context for your own purposes, which really seems little better than the approach taken by some others I could name. Their initials are G.B.
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  A Paduan

  Scout - these things are a matter of "how you hear" But if you bite and devour one another take heed that you are not consumed by one another. To you that appears to mean an offense in nastiness, but you are what you eat, and surely you have read enough bible words to know that when you eat something you become like it - eg. don't eat hawks, but, eat Jesus. The wtbts has taught you to read these things literally, according to the flesh. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ But refuse to enrol younger widows; for when they grow wanton against Christ they desire to marry, and so they incur condemnation for having violated their first pledge. Besides that, they learn to be idlers, gadding about from house to house, and not only idlers but gossips and busybodies, saying what they should not. So I would have younger widows marry, bear children, rule their households, and give the enemy no occasion to revile us. For some have already strayed after Satan. If any believing woman has relatives who are widows, let her assist them; let the church not be burdened, so that it may assist those who are real widows. Have a good look at that last bit so that it may assist those who are real widows There are widows who have lost their earthly husbands, and spiritual widows (it's not about literal women, but souls) who learn to say what they should not - very much like as in jwism. When they grow wanton against Christ, their first pledge (goodness), they seek another lover, another word so they may gad about from house to house busybodying, whereas they would be better off bearing children (fruit) and ruling their own households (theirself); some had already strayed after Satan (who disguises as an angel of light) or another 'word' (and the one you live with now is not your husband).

  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What causes wars, and what causes fightings among you? Is it not your passions that are at war in your members? You desire and do not have; so you kill (the spirit) So for the christian, the war is in themself ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scout, I think you still can't get your head around the issue of jws being wrong, and inept, and that judging 'christians' is how to continue to use a bottle of blame for sauce without speaking against 'mother'.
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  scout575

  
  A Paduan: We continue to be divided by a common language. When I refer to 'Christians', I am including Jehovah's Witnesses ( and their 'mother' ). The "wars" that are referred to at James 4:1 are not the same as the, "lusts that WAR in your members." In this verse James is pointing out that the SOURCE of the "wars" in the congregations is the, 'lusts that war in their members'. Clearly, there was severe hostility in the congregations that James was addressing. Not much evidence of the fruits of the spirit here.

  AULDSOUL: Many Christians claim to have the 'indwelling' of the holy spirit, and to have the fruits of the spirit. If this were true it would be reasonable to expect to see a marked difference in the personalities of Christians as compared to non-Christians. Having spent many years as a JW, and having had alot of contact with Christians from other denominations ( particularly church pastors ), and having spent many hours reading ex-Christian websites, I fail to see this difference.

  I live in a street where there are many Moslem families. Most Christians would say that Moslems don't have the holy spirit, and yet I see no difference between the Moslem families that I know and all the Christians that I know. This adds to my conviction that the 'fruits of the spirit' is yet another Christian myth.
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  A Paduan

  In this verse James is pointing out that the SOURCE of the "wars" in the congregations .............Clearly, there was severe hostility in the congregations ......

  It believe that it appears as an illustration of the etiology of wars, based on an unstated level of dispute as an understanding - there is nothing clear about severe hostility and "wars in the congregations" to me.

  It's in the way you chose to read it, and I suppose the "translation" that you use.
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  AuldSoul

  scout,

  None of which changes your out of context usage and inferences.

  AuldSoul
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  scout575

  A Paduan: James 4:2 says, "Ye kill". Whilst I don't necessarily take this to mean that there were literal murders being committed within the congregations that James was addressing, it DOES indicate that there was severe hostility.

  AULDSOUL. I fail to see why quoting scattered texts is such a problem. Do you want me to quote the entire chapter? The NT is full of examples of quoting scattered texts from the OT, see Romans 7:7, 8:36, 9:9 etc. The texts that I quote don't misrepresent the writers, but indicate the problems that they themselves address in their letters. Would you claim that I'm quoting verses out of context if I quoted nice NT verses? What about the following:

  "Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill, cannot be hid." ( Matthew 5:14 )

  "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly father will also forgive you." ( Matthew 6:14 )

  "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." ( Matthew 7:7 )

  Am I quoting out of context now, or is it only 'iffy' NT scattered verses that I shouldn't quote? Of course, NT writers are no slouches when it comes to quoting OT verses out of context, and misapplying them. Please see Matthew 1 :23 ; 2:15, 18 etc, for some real doozies.
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  A Paduan

  Whilst I don't necessarily take this to mean that there were literal murders being committed within the congregations that James was addressing, it DOES indicate that there was severe hostility.

  could be, maybe, postulates, tends to indicate - maybe not

  severe hostility I don't think - personal gain through marginalising another I can believe
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  scout575

  A Paduan: You interpret the expression, "Ye kill" ( James 4:2 ) very interestingly. It seems odd to me that that you feel that that expression can be used without indicating a background of severe hostility.

  Notice how James goes on to discipline his brothers and sisters for their failures, as indicated in verses 1,2: "Ye adulterers and adulteresses." ( verse 4 ). "Cleanse your hands you sinners, and purify your hearts, ye double minded." ( verse 8 ) " Be afflicted and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness." ( verse 9 ) "Speak not evil one of another." ( verse 11 ). Clearly, big problems existed in the congregations; not much sign of the so-called, 'fruits of the spirit'.

  I've been struck by how many times you have mis-interpreted my posts over the last few weeks, and how I've sometimes needed to say that we're, 'divided by a common language'. You seem to read my posts acccording to a pre-supposition about me, rather than seeing whats actually there. I wonder if you unconsciously have the same approach to the Bible?