The present standing of the "great crowd" with God is one of the most serious theological problems of the WT. It has never been clearly defined. Consider Revelation 7:14(b), which states that they "have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." Whatever the specific meaning in light of the context, to any Christian expositor it would at least mean that they have been justified (declared righteous). But this cannot be true of the JW "great crowd," for they will not be declared righteous until they pass the final test at the end of the thousand years. They do not share in the imputation of Christ's righteousness with the "little flock," but must wait in order to attain actual human perfection. In this respect, they are no different from those who will return in the resurrection who have never served God in this life. The "great crowd" have not received the "adoption as sons," they have never been "born again" or participated in any of the relationships which Christ's anointed body members have. So what is their standing? Over the years, the WT has waivered on this subject, but has been pretty consistent in its teachings about the anointed - because these at least have some basis in the NT (though the number 144,000 is controversial). At first, the "great crowd" were not even considered to be Christians or Jehovah's Witnesses, but now they serve in an inner courtyard of the spiritual temple and some of them are considered Nethinim. As I say, it is one of the worst problems the WT has created (theologically, that is), and it applies to the vast majority of JWs.
No information for the great crowd in the bible......................
by vitty 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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greendawn
True this doctrine appears to be totally unbalanced and out of place in Biblical picture of things and it shuts the door of the New Covenent on most JWs, without the adoption of the Spirit one wonders where they stand or belong.
Of course the great crowd is in heavens with the angels near the throne of God. It is not on the earth. -
cyberdyne systems 101
You were not alone vitty, I used to think this is all written for annointed christians, there is no mention of a paradise earth etc. Its only after leaving the mental confines of the witlesses that I read the NT and realise to be a christian we would be annointed.
Its like there is a scripture about turning back to our former way of life and being worse than those in the world, well this was for those annointed with spirit, something we great crowders were not supposed to have had, so how can they df us for changing our mind when we recieved no special understanding or conversion in it? I also realised we would be free of law by being annointed - the spirit working within us, and yet again that would never happen to the GC so we were still under law (see Romans).
CS 101
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Narkissos
There are no secrets in Christianity and Christ was transparent as were the biblical Apostles.
Mark 4:10ff,33f: When he was alone, those who were around him along with the twelve asked him about the parables. And he said to them, "To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside, everything comes in parables; in order that 'they may indeed look, but not perceive, and may indeed listen, but not understand; so that they may not turn again and be forgiven.' (...) With many such parables he spoke the word to them, as they were able to hear it; he did not speak to them except in parables, but he explained everything in private to his disciples."
Justin,
The "white robes" of the "great crowd" describe their status as they come from the great tribulation -- indicating, most likely, justification as the result of their trial to death (and emblematically martyrdom). Cf. 3:4f; 6:9ff.
This doesn't help WT theology, but mixing the Pauline view of justification as occurring before one's death doesn't help the interpretation of Revelation either imo.
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Justin
Narkissos,
You're right, of course, and that's why I stated that the text might have a more specific meaning in light of the context. Such statements as this may have lead to the Patristic idea that one can have a "baptism of blood" which is valid even if no water baptism has occurred - that is, one's death as a martyr will have cancelled out all guilt. Though not exactly Pauline, this would encompass the belief that the one so baptized has passed the test - is righteous in God's sight forevermore. So it does contrast with the WT view that the "great crowd" has a thousand years yet to go before passing the final test and then being declared righteous. But I would imagine that traditional commentators, whether Catholic or Protestant, would understand it to refer to justification taking place sometime during one's life (for the Protestants, a once-for-all justification, and for Catholics a justification which is renewed in the sacrament of Confession). Either way, it definitely contrasts with the WT.