Where was Daniel?

by wozadummy 29 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  wozadummy

  When I was going to meetings I raised a question at the book study when the Daniel book was being covered.

  When Nebuchadnezzar had the image built all the people including ALL the rulers including the Hebrew ones were commanded to bow to the image. It was brought to the attention of Neb that THREE Hebrews had not bowed down and it resulted in them being saved from the feiry furnace by an angel.

  My question was then, WHERE WAS DANIEL? as he was one of the rulers ,did he bow down or was he away or is this evidence of Bible innacuracy? The Society hedges away by saying wherever he was he was faithful because later he was tested by the lion pit. But EVERYONE was supposed to be there ,Daniel was a prized ruler in Babylon he should have been there .

  Anyone help me here in their research?
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  Lady Liberty

  Hmmmm

  Good question.. I never thought about that! You got me!!

  L.L.
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  joenobody

  Macking on one of Nebbie's many concubine's no doubt!
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  blondie

  The Bible doesn't say.....maybe some non-bible history scholar on JWD might know what they suggest. This question must have created some phone traffic at Bethel because this QFR appeared shortly after the book was released. Notice how the WTS uses "some" and "others" but does not name their sources.

  ***

  w01 8/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***

  Where was Daniel when the three Hebrews were tested before the huge image that Nebuchadnezzar had erected on the plain of Dura?

  The Bible does not say, so no man today can establish Daniel’s whereabouts during that test.

  Some have suggested that Daniel’s official rank or his standing in Nebuchadnezzar’s favor was higher than that of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego and that Daniel therefore was not obliged to go to the plain of Dura. Daniel 2:49 does indicate that for a time he had a position higher than that of his three companions. But we cannot prove that this exempted him from assembling with the others before the image.

  Attempting to explain Daniel’s absence, others have said that he might have been away on an official assignment or that he was sick and thus unable to attend. However, the Bible does not say that. In any case, Daniel’s course must not have been open to criticism, for if it had been, jealous Babylonian officials would undoubtedly have used it to bring accusations against him. (Daniel 3:8) Both before and after this episode, Daniel proved himself to be an integrity keeper, loyal to God no matter what challenge he faced. (Daniel 1:8; 5:17; 6:4, 10, 11) So even though the Bible does not say why Daniel was not present on the plain of Dura, we can be confident that he was uncompromisingly faithful to Jehovah God.—Ezekiel 14:14; Hebrews 11:33.
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  Leolaia

  Interesting you raise this question...I have been working on an enormous post on the composition of the book of Daniel, but have not finished it yet, but it goes into this issue. The main thing is that the various stories in ch. 1-6 have different origins and belong to a much wider cycle of stories than have survived in the Hebrew-Aramaic text of Daniel; there are other stories (in varying forms) in the Greek versions of Daniel, still others in the Dead Sea Scrolls, and there were other stories about faithful Jews in the court of Babylonian and Persian kings, such as the Tale of the Three Pages in 1 Esdras (concerning Zerubbabel) and the Tale of Bagasraw in the Dead Sea Scrolls. There is also evidence from the LXX that LXX ch. 4-6 derive from an earlier collection of these stories, to which ch. 1-3 have been added from the Hebrew-Aramaic book. Moreover, the story in ch. 3 resembles cognate stories in Eupolemus (second-century BC) concerning the persecution of the prophet Jeremiah and in Pseudo-Philo (early first century AD) concerning the persecution of Abraham, and it has links to the story of Bel in the LXX version of Daniel.

  So one possible explanation is that Daniel was never a part of the story in ch. 3. It has also been noted that ch. 3 also has quite distinct stylistic features of oral narratives (such as redundant repetition throughout) that set it apart from the other stories in Daniel. Moreover, if the theory of Albertz is correct, ch. 1 (which was written in Hebrew, instead of Aramaic as is the case with ch. 3) was written after the earlier Aramaic apocalypse by the Hebrew author who added ch. 8-12. In fact, ch. 1 does show a number of interesting features in common with ch. 10-12 (such as a focus on the maskilim and mentions of the "royal food"), and its literary function would then be to introduce Daniel and the other three men, and explain how the latter were associated with the central protagonist, Daniel.
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  wozadummy

  When I asked this question looking to all in the group a sister irritably said "well we have all asked that question!" as if to say " well we've covered that so don't go there!"

  Then I looked at others and they all stated looking elsewhere ,so I said that we should ask these things not just read un thinkingly back the answers from the book!

  Well this went down really badly especially with the Elder taking the study......yes I say STUDY is'nt that a thinking process, and I guess that reveals the attitude most take as witnesses.

  But I still want a decent answer to this - I could'nt get it from JW's strangely!!!?!
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  wozadummy

  Thanks Blondie , I did find that article before I went to the book study back then and was not satisfied with it and that motivates me to query it with the group ,and used it to make the point that we should think about what we are trying to learn........made me about as popular as hailstones on a summers day!

  Leolaia

  I am anxious to read your work as I am looking forward to another viewpoint apart from WT lies and deception.
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  peacefulpete

  Leolaia, does the noncanonical Daniel material in Antiquities 10.11 figure in your article? I wonder what Joe meant by "several books" by a Jewish priest from/by which Daniel was accepted as a prophet. Was at least Joes additional material sourced from these books? What do you make of :

  Now when Daniel was become so illustrious and famous, on account of the opinion men had that he was beloved of God, he built a tower at Ecbatana, in Media: it was a most elegant building, and wonderfully made, and it is still remaining, and preserved to this day; and to such as see it, it appears to have been lately built, and to have been no older than that very day when any one looks upon it, it is so fresh (27) flourishing, and beautiful, and no way grown old in so long time; for buildings suffer the same as men do, they grow old as well as they, and by numbers of years their strength is dissolved, and their beauty withered. Now they bury the kings of Media, of Persia, and Parthia in this tower to this day, and he who was entrusted with the care of it was a Jewish priest; which thing is also observed to this day. But it is fit to give an account of what this man did, which is most admirable to hear, for he was so happy as to have strange revelations made to him, and those as to one of the greatest of the prophets, insomuch, that while he was alive he had the esteem and applause both of the kings and of the multitude; and now he is dead, he retains a remembrance that will never fail, for the several books that he wrote and left behind him are still read by us till this time; and from them we believe that Daniel conversed with God; for he did not only prophesy of future events, as did the other prophets, but he also determined the time of their accomplishment.
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  peacefulpete

  lol, I just googled an article that claimed Daniel's absence from the furnace story was a prophetic type for the preTrib. firery rapture!
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  Leolaia

  Interesting question. It is curious that Josephus refers to "the books" (ta biblia) written by Daniel, but his description of the career of Daniel derives almost entirely from the ch. 1-6 with only occasional statements that can be traced to apocryphal sources. He seems to know a different narrative setting for ch. 8 or a similar vision set in Susa ("for he says that when he was in Susa, the capital of Persia, and went out into the field with his companions, there was suddenly an earthquake and movement of the earth, and his friends fled from him, leaving him by himself"), so this could be a clue that Josephus knew other writings attributed to Daniel, and he also relates that Daniel built a tower in Ecbatana tho this could have come from oral tradition rather than a pseudepigraphal book.

  Aside from the Danielic material in the Dead Sea Scrolls and in the LXX and Theodotion, I could also mention this fragment attributed to Daniel in the Prophetarum Vitae (first century AD):

  "And he [Daniel] gave a portent with respect to the mountains which are above Babylon: 'When the mountain on the north smokes, the end of Babylon is coming and when it lies as in fire, the end of all the earth. And if the mountain in the south pours forth water the people will return to its land, and if it pours forth blood, Beliar's slaughter will take place in all the earth' " (4:19-20).

  This intriguing oracle has not been provenanced, tho it resembles statements in the Sibylline Oracles and in 4 Ezra.