Really serious question!

by 5thGeneration 31 Replies latest jw friends

  • jgnat

    For grissom:

  • Terry
    What is there not to believe? And when you do not believe what is taught, what do you have that is better? Come on, the faithlessness here. It is disgusting.

    Each of us has choices in life.

    We look at our choices and select the ones that better our condition.

    Every time we choose we UNchoose the alternative choice. In other words, we give something up.

    When people (such as myself) first made our choices about what to believe about God, the bible and morality we were making the best possible

    selections and decisions we could make given our level of education, maturity and familiarity with those subjects.

    Years pass. You have new experiences. You filter your experiences and new information about your initial knowledge.

    If you are intellectually honest you make revisions, updates and amendments in your world view to conform to reality.

    At some point in each person's life they face an AWFUL CHOICE. INTEGRITY or COMFORT?

    Suddenly we see a cherished belief deflated. Debunked. Challenged by evidence to the contrary.

    A new choice is required: "loyalty" to false idea which makes us emotionally reassured or integrity which makes us change our view and go in a new direction.

    You cannot fake reality. If you try you destroy the rational basis for thinking itself. You decend into a make-believe vision of ideals.

    Faith is an opinion with deep emotional roots.

    Faith requires us to assume facts not in evidence.

    Faith rests on desire. It clings to the shadows of hear-say.

    Jehovah's Witnesses (if they have been paying attention) have seen the prophecies of the Watchtower and faithful and discreet slave proved FALSE.

    The question becomes this: do we cling to "loyalty" for a false prophet or do we have the morality and integrity to leave even if it means we will be on our own?

    Thinking for themselves
    is not a Jehovah's Witnesses strength!

    Having the rational basis of your mind eroded by obedience to mere opinion is crippling. But, integrity and morality and intellectual honesty demand you abandon a LIE (no matter how beautiful).

  • mustang

    I favor the smile and nod while walking backwards out the door approach. It worked for me

    Seriously, any time you can be non-confronatational its better. You may not start out to have a confrontation, but trying to leave will become one, somehow.

    And the whole matter of JW-ism could have best been solved if us 'dumb kids' (raised in da troof viewpoint, here) were smart enough to grasp the fact that NON-COMMITAL would have been the way to go.

    But you just aren't given both sides of it when you grow up in 'da troof'.


  • drew sagan
    drew sagan

    Sound a little like how my wife viewed things. She kept telling me to go to an Elder with my problems about the WTS teachings. She thought I would get treated well and that it wouldn't be a big deal. After the local needs on 'apostates' less than a week after I met with the Elder her view changed. Now she's reading Crisis of Conscience.
    The results of writing such a letter may help your wife to see through this WT stuff like it did for mine. But there is no garuntee.

  • lonelysheep

    Whether you do or not is totally up to you. My so-called friends have had nothing to do with me since I sent them my letter (March 2005). I was never baptized, btw.

    At this point, I knew I was 100% athiest, but for some silly reason, thought it'd make a difference by not saying it.


    I hope all is well. I've been going through a lot lately on the inside...personal reflection, I guess. Among the thoughts I've had is the concept of religion. Lately, it's been my faith in God. It grew stronger until dec. 26, when the tsunami occurred.

    First, on religion....I don't believe in it anymore..none of them. None of them are 100% right. I don't believe the faithful and discreet slave class are witnesses, only, either. It isn't right to keep putting people in classes, whether it be clergy, pseudo-clergy, classes based on how many years a person's put into a religion. I don't believe that the governing body or anyone in bethel for that matter is any closer to God than any other human being on this planet. I will believe what Jesus said: "No one comes to the father except through me." I've chosen to take that to heart. My eyes opened when I accepted this. I can't bring myself to ever enter into any religion again. I'm aware of the verse in Hebrews.."when two or more gather in my name...", yet religion itself is not based on the bible.

    They're all hypocritical in some way. C.T. Russell was a 7th day Adventist...then left, so started the watchtower as an 'apostate'. We're warned of the UN being the wild beast yet it was ok for the society to be a part of them??!! Library purposes or not, it's no excuse to be a part of them yet preach otherwise during the talks and magazines.

    This is from the UN's website...not an apostate site. n/watchtower.pdf
    I really feel like religion, all of them, while having some things right, also have a lot of power...that goes beyond what is written. It's the blind leading the blind as far as I'm concerned. I can't even bring myself to positively say I'll attend the memorial because I don't agree with everything that is taught. Not to mention Jesus told the apostles to take this in remembrance. He ate the bread and drank the wine. That is what we should do as well.

    At the last talk I attended, I couldn't even sit through it all. I refuse to be controlled by men, men who are imperfect. Or worse, made to feel guilty inside if I don't go along with everything they say 'comes from Jehovah'. I know that to not be true.

    Since the watchtower frowns upon people like me who do not and will not agree with them, I'm sure I've got a new label now.

    Just know that I love you.

    Your 'worldly' friend,

  • Dismembered
    :What is there not to believe? And when you do not believe what is taught, what do you have that is better? Come on, the faithlessness here. It is disgusting

    Just like I said. Brain-dead.


  • AuldSoul


    What is there not to believe? And when you do not believe what is taught, what do you have that is better?

    You seem sincere, so...there are things not to believe:

    (1) That the Bible teaches (actively and specifically) the concept of "paradise earth" anywhere. The phrase does not appear in the Bible. The word paradise only shows up four times in the New World Translation and the two times where a location for paradise is specified, the location is in heaven. In the case of one of the remaining two times, the location is inferred as wherever Jesus will be. (Song of Solomon 4:13; Luke 23:39-43; 2 Corinthians 12:1-7; Revelation 2:5-7)

    (2) That the Bible teaches that the destruction of the temple or Jerusalem had any significance whatsoever to the interpretation of Jeremiah 25-29. This has a direct bearing on a later point, which is why I mention it here. Jeremiah 27 shows plainly that the 70 years of servitude to Babylon had already begun during the reign of Zedekiah, and specifically asks (ostensibly for God) "Why should this city become a devastated place?" (Jeremiah 27:17)

    (3) That the Bible points to the year 1914 as anything special. It does not. There is no such thing as a "prophetic year" and there never was. There is NO indication that external methods of calculation should be brought to bear on Daniel 4 for any purpose other than trying to figure out how long Nebuchadnezzar was out of his mind (as a point of trivia, if someone were so inclined). The "appointed times of the nations" have a link to the BOOK of Daniel, in Daniel 7, but there is nothing at all tying that phrase to Daniel 4. This reality also takes the pressure off trying to force the destruction of Jerusalem to have occurred in a specific year.

    (4) That the sign of the last days is being fulfilled right now. Interestingly, the sign of the last days was being fulfilled once before. Between the years 1874 and 1914, in point of fact. Because Christ returned in 1874 and began ruling in 1878, and his people would wander in the wilderness for 40 years, terminating in 1914 and the war of Armageddon. Just ask any Bible Student in the year 1885 whether they were living in the last days. And if God's chosen people got it wrong once, what confidence should anyone have that they did not get it wrong the second time?

    (5) That any human or body of humans is authorized to judge the faith of another human. According to the Bible, that is the job of only one person—anyone else who presumes to do so is seating themselves in the seat of that one. Jesus is the judge.

    (6) That any human or body of humans has been authorized to excise undesirables from the congregation pursuant to secret judgment meetings, which cannot be recorded or witnessed, and wherein one person alone faces three people whose job it is to try to compel conformance or cut the person off for non-conformance. Such a concept is not present anywhere in the Scriptures.

    The nearest example to be found is the nighttime trial of Jesus, but even that was open to the public. It was simply held at a time when the public would not likely be present. There is NO parallel to a Judicial Committee anywhere in the Scriptures. Reading up on WTS reasons for the Israelite courts to be held in the city gates may give you serious reason to question their judicial arrangement. It is far from a loving provision from God.

    (7) That any human is required to confess their sins to any human in order for forgiveness to take place. We have a High Priest and King to whom we can confess. (Hebrews 5) Obviously, if there is no cause for confession to humans there is no need for humans to judge one another (see point 6).

    (8) That a Christian must profess allegiance to an organization or demonstrate the extent of their doctrinal understanding before baptism. (Acts 2:37-42; 3:11-4:4; 8:26-40; 10:34-48) Contrast the Scriptural example with the extensive Jehovah's Witnesses process of study (never recorded as a requirement in the Bible), regularity in meeting attendance and field service (never recorded in the Bible), confirmation of doctrine through question and answer sessions (never recorded in the Bible), specific prayer of dedication (never recorded in the Bible), public verbal confirmation of dedication (never recorded in the Bible), and public verbal acknowledgement that baptism symbolizes attachment to an organization (never recorded in the Bible).

    I find it odd that point for point the entire process of approaching baptism as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses is in direct conflict with the process as described in the Bible.

    Come on, the faithlessness here. It is disgusting.

    Blind following of organizational doctrine is not faithfulness. If you were at some point deluded into believing that, please explain why you hold that belief. Before I will follow an organization's dogma I will have to be fully satisfied that the organization is actually chosen by God. The faithlessness of those whose lead you follow compels me to reject them. If you consider me faithless, don't follow me. I don't want followers, so that should work out just fine.

    The Governing Body are men. Just men. Not special men in any way. They were not chosen for their positions by God, they were chosen for their positions by vote. Trace that process back to its origins and you will find The Society, the corporate heads who usurped control of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society from those C.T. Russell left in charge. The current Governing Body is still chosen by vote, the members are descendants, after a fashion, of that Society from the early 1900s who claimed Jesus chose them.

    It is a lie. They are not to be trusted. Because they are men, they are not to be trusted. (Psalm 146:3)

    What do I have to replace this false doctrine? If I am drinking water from a stream and someone proves that there is a dead cow rotting in the middle of this water source upstream, must I locate a clean source of water before deciding to stop drinking from this one? Wouldn't it make more sense to stop drinking immediately and go off in search of another water source?

    There is a dead cow laying upstream in your water source. It is called the Governing Body, it's a rotting corpse.

    I hope you wake up. There is more faithfulness on this forum than you credit.


  • under_believer

    AuldSoul, amazing. Just an amazing, simple, great post. Going into my permanent research file. Thank you so much for that.

  • buffalosrfree

    grissom - what is there not to believe?

    1. 1914 doctrine

    2. 1918 being chosen to be faithful and discreet slave

    3. 1925 the return of Abraham, Issac and Moses (or whomever)

    4. Being released from Babylon the Great in 1919, (8 people=nation of Israel????)

    5. 1941 bring on 'armageodon

    6. 1975 the end.

    7. The end is always just around the corner.

    8. 1995 the generation thing.

    Thats just to name a few, so how can you believe all that b.s., are you really that unthinking, can't you reason for yourself?

  • BizzyBee
    I wrote an email to people here saying why I was no longer attending. The result I made one girl throw up

    Another warrior for Jehoober! Pukin' the in loo!

Share this