Ray Franz

by Jeremy Bravo 15 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Jeremy Bravo

  Hello All,

  I was talking to Jw's that I know about a book that I had read by Ray Franz. They told me that he was disfellowshipped because he was trying to the control the religion and bend it to his will.

  I have read Crisis of Conscience and the first half of In Search of Christian Freedom, and can tell from my heart that this is not the case. I see from his examples that he was truly trying to use scripture as his guide.

  I am curious of other rumors that are/were circulating through the congregations about him, and on what "basis" they have been spread.

  I have never met Ray personally, so I would also be interested to know the thoughts and feelings of those who have.

  Thanks,
  Jer.
• 

  Winston

  The rumor spead because when people are afraid of something(what Ray write's about),they need rumors to make them feel they are right for staying with the WT.

  They need rumors so they will never get enough curiousity to investigate.

  They need rumors so they can tell themselves the Society is God's Organization.

  They need rumor because the WT is silent about Ray and why he let.

  They need rumors so they can not get their hopes dashed.

  They need rumors because they won't even beleive that anyone could leave the WT without being guilty of some sin.

  Former elder turned apostate (by WT definition)[:)}and proud of it!
• 

  VeniceIT

  Ummm as for rumors and slander they are just that!!! It's amazing what 'Christian' people will spread about others that are hateful and malicious. I know there have been some bad rumors spread about me and my family, probably some by the rest of the family.

  In the mid 70's there was a MAJOR power strugle at Bethel. Up until that time all power had been given to the President (Nathan Knorr) and the vice President (Fred Franz, Ray's uncle). The WTS were publishing that there was a 'Governing Body', but that's not the case. They 'GB' were only members of the Board of Directors and had NO SAY in what was taught or preached. So since they were telling the Rank and file that there was a GB the GB decided they should have more power. WEll that didn't go over well with Franz (Fred) and Knorr. Fred then went so far as to give a talk at the Gilead Graduation in '75. The talk was about how there was 'No GB in the 1st century', (For a copy go to http://www.commentarypress.com)!

  At this time Ray was on the GB was taking note of all that was going on. He was at the same time doing personal study and came to find many things that he didn't agree with that the WTS was teaching. Ed Dunlap, Gilead instructor, discoverd the same things. He was DF'd, and had to go find his own job somewhere. Ray left Bethel and got a job working for Peter Gregerson. He was seen eating lunch with his wife Cynthia, and Peter (his boss). Ray was then Df'd for eating with a DF'd person, the funny thing is that this was not a ruling Until after this incident they made that one up special for Ray. Another point of interest was that Cynthia was right there TOO but was not df'd hmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!

  I had the privilege of meeting Ray and Cynthia last Nov. They are both very sweet, and it's amazing that people would say what they have about them over the years.

  I felt so bad about how I had felt about them, and the rumors I had heard. NONE of which are true, they are a wonderfuly delightful couple!!!! (and their favorite TV show is Frasier!!!)

  "The best way to convince a fool that he is wrong, is to let him have his own way."---Josh Billings
• 

  Fredhall

  Bravo,

  There is one thing good about Ray Franz books. That is, they are good for toiletpapers.
• 

  Billygoat

  Fred,

  Since when do kitty cats use toilet paper?

  Andi
• 

  Fredhall

  Billygoat,

  I don't know about you but this cat is potty trained.
• 

  jurs

  I had never heard of Ray Franz when I was a witness. When the elders came to visit me , I thought I'd shock them when I told them that I read a book by him. They didn't even flinch so I guess they knew who he was. All I ever heard was that there were people called apostates who are evil and leave Jehovah and then spread lies about the org because they are so influenced by satan.
  jurs
• 

  Had Enough

  Hi Jeremy:

  I'm glad you brought this up.

  Venice gave a very good description of what happened to Ray. There are various rumours that circulated about him and what he did or was and is doing now. One I heard was that he was the one that started and pushed the 1975 fiasco. And that is from the general rank and file type JW...but the sad thing is..they have heard these rumours and believe them to be absolute truth without even searching out further to find the "real" truth.

  I've never met the man, but his whole personality of humility and concern for other JWs still "trapped", comes through loud and clear in his books. If he was a bitter old man trying to stir up trouble and dissent against the WTS, it would be obvious in his books...but it isn't anywhere to be found in his books or in his personality with those who have met him and talked to him.

  PS: Sorry I missed meeting you at the BRCI....I was there Saturday and heard later you were there too.... Why don't you try to make it to Toronto this weekend to meet up with a few of us who were at the BRCI and the others too? We'd like to meet you....no meetings or talks this time..just a lot of fun and conversation.
• 

  Room 215

  As a former member of the Bethel family and a first-hand observer of events there during 1965-69, I can unequivocally attest to how highly regarded Ray was at Bethel, particularly by Knorr.
  In fact, I know many of the main characters in the ``apostasy'' witch hunt, and in general the accused were also almost universally respected and well-liked for their integrity, clean habits and industry.
  Basically, the Pandora's Bos was opened when Knorr ordered the composition of the Aid book, giving researchers the mandate to do the job unfettered by constraints by what the Society had written heretofore. The critical scrutiny of core beliefs that ensued resulted in the elder arrangement and pointed in the direction of large-scale fundamental doctrinal reform. The liberals sought to press on; the old-line conservatives were frightened by the ramifications and sought to retrench. The latter prevailed, and used their power to discredit the would-be reformers.
  The ``closet liberals,'' many of whom have something to do with writing, have been licking their wounds ever since, waiting for an opportunity for the old guard to falter and then to press their agenda for change. Maybe we're at that point now.
• 

  Jeremy Bravo

  Fred,

  There is one thing good about Ray Franz books. That is, they are good for toiletpapers.

  So's your pillow.

  Meow.
  Jer.

  P.S> I'd love to meet up in T.O. this weekend, but that could make things dicey with my situation....I can explain later.