Asshole Atheism – Not for me, now or ever.

by donny 59 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • millie210
    millie210
    I'd much rather meet a respectful atheist that I could work side by side with than a fundy believer. I don't want to be associated with a**holes of any persuasion. Activists can be the most off putting bad advertisements for their causes imaginable.Activist atheists included.

    Yes, I agree.

    Now that I know that religion really is a snare and a racket, I am very curious about avenues of thought I have never explored, including atheism. I didnt realize it would be so hard to have conversations about this as a topic.

  • Twitch
    Twitch

    Interestingly, people of faith can say things like "I hope you enjoy the heat" or "You'll wish you had believed when you're in hell" and totally get away with it 100%, simply because someone doesn't believe in God. They can literally tell someone they will be tortured in fire for eternity and it's considered a kindness.

    Get away with it? I guess that depends on how insulted you feel about stuff you don't believe in by people that don't care about you. Sticks and stones IMO.

    I don't mind others believing differently, as most seem to seek the good in things. Those that don't aren't worth my time. Some beliefs are kinda cool actually and I've enjoyed sampling the interesting bits from a select variety over the years. But I generally try to avoid judgmental and spiteful people no matter what the cause of their damage is, religion or otherwise.

    However, that say person being told "I think religion and belief in invisible creatures is stupid" is somehow persecution and the person telling them is an asshole.

    Well, I'd say that same person had it coming IMO. That fundamentalist is a knob. But I don't think that person is indicative of all believers. And even though they believe in something I don't, as long as no harm is done and we all go about our lives, who cares? My own garden needs tending, never mind theirs.

    Some people might actually respect others regardless of differing beliefs. And thus are deserving of respect in kind. Or so one might muse.

    Yeah, not how it works.

    For you. For others, perhaps it's different.

  • Viviane
    Viviane
    I guess that depends on how insulted you feel about stuff you don't believe in by people that don't care about you. Sticks and stones IMO.

    Insulted? Most people have no idea what real insults are. Those that can't swim in the deep end shouldn't jump in the pool.

    But I don't think that person is indicative of all believers.

    All believer, by definition, believe in things with out evidence, leading us to...

    And even though they believe in something I don't, as long as no harm is done and we all go about our lives, who cares?

    Religion often has harm on in it's name, particularly when religious beliefs are allowed to penetrate secular law and society. We are all better off for having our beliefs challenged and not being allowed with getting away with saying terrible things in the name of love. This planet is ours and our children's garden, if you don't tend it, you've no right to complain about the weeds.

    For you. For others, perhaps it's different.

    Only until they try that on me. Then it's absolutely no different.

  • Twitch
    Twitch

    Have a good night, Viviane

  • Xanthippe
    Xanthippe

    Some people have strongly didactic personalities. They were preachy JWs and now they have a personal mission to convert the world to atheism.

    Now one of them will indignantly tell me atheism is not a religion and therefore people cannot be converted to it. Lol. A singular lack of interest in the arts makes some incapable of understanding the use of poetic licence as an art form.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Nobody should ever attack an individual personally or use insults directed at a person's character. I have been on the receiving end of such attacks by believers on this forum more times than I could count.

    In my normal life outside this forum I never discuss religion or faith at all - unless I bump into JWs with their trolleys. However this is a religious discussion forum. It is a place explicitly for the purpose of exploring matters of belief.

    It was a failure to hold our previous beliefs up to ruthless scrutiny that left us in a life-destroying cult for so long. It makes no sense to leave the cult and carry on shielding the fundamentals of our faith. Just as JWs become offended when we use facts to challenge their precious beliefs, many ex-JW believers react similarly when their alternative superstitions are exposed to evidence.

    Instead of responding with reason, facts and evidence, they reveal their insecurity by taking offense at the "tone" and dismiss those who offer the evidence as "militant, angry, or arseholes".

    Then we have a large number of people who have very little interest in examining the evidence regarding the big questions but who like to take offense on behalf of others. Some of these tend to be the most prone to making personal attacks. They commit the "middle ground" fallacy by assuming the truth probably lies somewhere between the two positions. It doesn't. Halfway between facts and a lie is still a lie.

    Bad ideas should be attacked with all the facts, reason, evidence and rational thinking we can muster. The response should be to reply with evidence for belief. Taking offense or launching ad hominem attacks is - just like JWs - evidence of insecurity.

  • Viviane
    Viviane
    Now one of them will indignantly tell me atheism is not a religion and therefore people cannot be converted to it. Lol. A singular lack of interest in the arts makes some incapable of understanding the use of poetic licence as an art form.

    Do you have a specific example of someone indignantly pointing out this truth and being incapable of understanding poetic license?

    In my normal life outside this forum I never discuss religion or faith at all - unless I bump into JWs with their trolleys. However this is a religious discussion forum. It is a place explicitly for the purpose of exploring matters of belief.

    That is also true of me, but living in a very religious area and having fou churches within six blocks of my house means religions comes up quite a bit in situations where it has no real particular place. I usually try to decline the conversation a few times and if they persist, then proceed in asking questions about the BIble and their blood cult until they angrily tell me I am going to hell (whereas in the beginning they only wanted to politely tell me I was going to hell).

    At least they won't bother me again.

  • Twitch
    Twitch

    Some ideals I heard about and rather fancy;

    Declaration on the Elimination of All Forms of Intolerance and of Discrimination Based on Religion or Belief

    The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 18

    Ironic in a sense, considering the source and common history here, yes?

    As with most ideals though, reality falls far short of course. Still, a rather tolerant and fair ideal IMO and one that rings true to me. I'm not alone in thinking such ideals are good it seems.

    Humanity will always be diverse. For the most part, I'm ok with that. But I have to remind myself, it ain't all about me. And that gets me through the day.

  • Xanthippe
    Xanthippe

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/283202/question-athiests?size=10&page=2

    Viviane this thread is an example of a poster asking why some atheists seem to want to convert people to their way of thinking. I grant that the OP is not very clear but the question regarding conversion to atheism is.

    Some posters reply with understanding that the topic is asking why some atheists seem to devote so much time to persuading people to move away from a belief in God while other posters seem merely to want to argue that you cannot convert to atheism because it is a lack of belief.

    The latter are not engaging with the OP regarding why try and convert others to atheism. In other words why not live and let live, why care what others believe if they are not hurting anyone. They are being pedantic.

    This is what I was referring to and I have come across it many times. Fortunately not very often these days as we do not have the endless atheists versus believers threads that were prevalent a few years ago. You only arrived a year ago so I suppose it is understandable that you haven't seen them. I take it this is why you asked for an example, I hope you weren't accusing me of lying.

  • redvip2000
    redvip2000

    I'm sorry but I think if people want to blurt out public statements of faith then I think it's reasonable that people can also challenge those statements and assumptions with their own statements.

    I generally agree with this as well. I think there is a fine line between parodying and mocking though, which is sometimes crossed. Parodying religious belief is fair IMO, for if these beliefs stand on their own as absurd then it's fair game to call them absurd, stupid, or ridiculous.

    I don't think it's fair to mock the people who believe in them in a way which will embarrass them though. I don't think this is fair. It's the same principle with the Watchtower beliefs; they are absurd and stupid and so we call a spade for what it is, but it would be wrong to call a JW stupid for believing in them.

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