"Another objection to the NT I began to consider at this time was the failure of Jesus to return in the generation of his disciples as promised. Matt. 16:27,28 and 24:34, etc. I had often heard evangelicals poking fun at Jehovah's Witnesses for their failed prophecies of Jesus' return, yet most of my acquaintances were oblivious of the same problem in the NT." The above extract from a de-conversion story can be found by googling: 'Leaving Christianity', then clicking on, 'main links from the secular web', then, 'testimonies page', then, 'from missionary Bible translator to agnostic', then, 'crisis#5 Deism'. If you are a JW considering joining a church, please read the entire 'anti-testimony'.
"Failed Prophecies of Jesus' Return."
by scout575 14 Replies latest watchtower bible
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myelaine
say it isn't so...
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rebel8
Brochure: Have JWs Ever Made False Prophecies?
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Deputy Dog
scout
If you are a JW considering joining a church, please read the entire 'anti-testimony'.
If you are a JW considering joining a church, please get all the facts
Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Fulfilled:
Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into a high mountain apart, 2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elijah talking with him. 4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah. 5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. 6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. 7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid. 8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.
Mar 9:2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into a high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them. 3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them. 4 And there appeared unto them Elijah with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
As for Mat 24:34 There are many ways in which one could see this fulfilled, some believe it was fulfilled in 70 AD. Others believe "This generation" to mean "this race" and the fulfillment is yet to be fulfilled.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
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A Paduan
If you are a JW considering joining a church, consider it well if your family will come - then when you go to leave the church it won't be a family wrecking issue
If the church you join has members that think the above prophecy is false, explain to them that he did both transfigure and return more than once after being crucified, whereas jw prophecies been revealed plainly as bunkum, though denied by the prophecying group, who even attempt to deny having been a prophet at all - indeed, every and any level of deceipt is entered to cover the issue, from victim blaming to threatenings.
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peacefulpete
DD its tru some have tried to reinterpret various prophecies of the imminence of the Kingdom as meaning the so called transfiguration scene. But if that was the intent of the Gospel writers they were certainly not making that clear. Besides was it 6 or 8 (ala Luke) days later? How many would have died in those 6-8 days so as to explain the statement that "some standing here today will not taste death until...." ?
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Narkissos
The interesting thing with Matthew is that, in spite of the latest redaction which integrates the mission to the Gentiles and postpones the "end" sine die (cf. the extant conclusion in 28:18ff) it does keep track of earlier Jewish-Christian (perhaps not that "Christian" after all) expectations.
E.g. 10:5f,23:
These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
(...) When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next; for truly I tell you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.About chapter 24, which includes mission in the diaspora (although not necessarily to the Gentiles; the good news is preached in all the world only as a testimony to all the nations, v. 14), one cannot hold that the "generation" is limited to Jerusalem's fall, cf. v.
Immediately after the suffering of those days
That this could be reinterpreted in view of a longer temporal perspective (such as appears in 28:18ff) is obvious. That it was not the original meaning of those texts is no less obvious.
the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from heaven,
and the powers of heaven will be shaken.
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see 'the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven' with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. -
Terry
There are several core problems involved with prophecies of Jesus Return.
1.The Bible
2.Jesus
3.Prophecy
Other than that, it is a cinch!
People refuse, yes REFUSE to acknowledge that we don't have the orginal writings said to be inspired and composed by Apostles and prophets. We not only don't have the original writings; we don't have the copies of those writings. You know what else we don't have? We don't have the copies of the copies of the copies of those writings!!
Hundreds of years pass and we finally end up with copies of the copies of the copies of the copies asserted to be ACTUAL. All the people in authority who assert this had their own differing agendas. Further, they could destroy any version they did not agree with....and they did do that.
Then, there is the matter of the errors. There are so many dicrepencies as to the correct wording of key words and phrases that there are more contradictory readins than there are words in the New Testament.
Let's just stop right here!
Without knowing (yes knowing) the actual data of what was said and who said it (and when) we have a road map that always leads us to an area where we are LOST.
Do we need go any farther than this???
The map is not going to take us where we want to go!! End of story!!
We actually know so very little that is factual about a Jew named Jesus that we are relying on hearsay of hearsay of hearsay of hearsay. That, my friends, just isn't much of a basis for confidence.
Prophecy itself is a tricky matter when dealing with OLD writings anyway. Why? Because you cannot actually prove that the prophecy wasn't written after the events SAID to be predicted.
Two thousand + years have passed and nobody knows anything.
I'm not making this up. -
drew sagan
Well, there certainly have been a rush if opinions on this topic hasn't there.
I for one enjoyed the discussion put for in the 'Sign of the Last Days, When?' book. Looking at those who proclaim the end is near and that Christ is very close seem to allways fail. It's interesting to walk away from all that and realize that it is fanatical error.
I'm actually interested in further study and research about the history of differant groups through the centuries who had a 'reason' to preach and warn that Christ would come within their own lifetime.
We can't deny that those who proclaim such things are looking to a failed way to interpret scripture and that there are other ways to explain it like Jonsson did. -
Leolaia
PP...An even stronger point is considering the import of the previous verse which similarly describes the coming of the Son of Man: "For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done" (Matthew 16:27). This is clearly a reference to the eschatological judgment (which the term "Son of Man" is overwhelmingly associated with anyway), and parallels such texts as Matthew 19:28, 24:30-31, 38-51, 25:31-46, 26:64 which refer to the future parousia of the Son of Man, not the Transfiguration (which does not feature eschatological judgment, accompaniment by angels, etc.). The logion about not "tasting death" also circulated independently of the Transfiguration story (cf. John 8:52, Gospel of Thomas 1), and lies behind the tradition about certain apostles not dying before the parousia (cf. John 21:23).
At the same time, the pericope of the Transfiguration is linked to this logion in the Markan narrative and its derivatives (which in fact intensify the link, i.e. Elijah and JtB in 16:14, "You are the Christ, Son of the Living God" in 16:16, "tell no one" in 16:20, Passion and Resurrection prediction in 16:21, coming of "Son of Man" in 16:27, "Father's glory" in 16:27, coming of Son of Man in 16:28, transfigured glory in 17:2, Elijah in 17:3, "This is my Son" in 17:5, "tell no one" in 17:9, Resurrection prediction in 17:9, coming of Elijah in 17:10, Passion prediction in 17:12, "Son of Man" in 17:12, and Elijah and JtB in 17:13). The Transfiguration story develops the themes of the preceding Caesarea Philippi pericope in the following way: (1) It shows the glory that the Son of Man will have, (2) It demonstrates that Peter's confession was correct, with God himself declaring Jesus to be his "Son", (2) It demonstrates that Jesus is not Elijah as some had thought, (3) It connects the coming of the "Son of Man" to the coming of "Elijah," reinforcing the idea that Jesus must suffer and "taste death" as well (i.e. Elijah suffered, so too the Son of Man must suffer), (4) It connects the glory of the Transfiguration with the resurrection (i.e. "Tell no one what you have seen until the Son of Man has risen from the dead"), and thus (5) implies that the Resurrection will precede the final judgment (since the Son of Man will come in glory) tho the latter will occur before everyone then hearing him will "taste death".