Let cut JWs some slack on Christ's status. They might be right. (page 4)

Kenneson

Gumsindenial,

"It was his later followers who made him equal to God." They couldn't make him what He already is. I see it more as his followers refusing to demote Jesus' attributes when clearly they are the same as God's. As God is love, so is Jesus. As God is eternal, so is Jesus. As God is creator, so is Jesus. Etc.

Jesus is said to be the Word of God made flesh. John 1:1, 14 Was there ever a time when God was mute? How can the Word of God be less than God? Jesus is called the Power and Wisdom of God in 1 Cor. 1:24 Was God's Power and Wisdom ever created? God always possessed Power and Wisdom. There never was a time when He was without it. Clearly, this was John and Paul's way of referring to the infinity of Christ.

"All men are created equal." Women (wives) are equal to men (husbands). Jesus is equal to God. I think it all depends what we mean by equal.

RevFrank

ok Spectrum......let me ask you this...Jesus told us that Satan the Devil was hte lier and killer from the very beginning...So do you disagree?

heathen

LT--- just the way I'm interpreting things about the dubs . I feel they are teaching all non Israelites that they are no more than assistants to the Israel of God . I'm still trying to grasp the complete picture the WTBTS portrays but it is far from the picture of mainstream religion . I just learned about the nethinim class they invented .They actually had people excited over that one ......... They are hard to understand at times because they imply alot of things that they are not willing to admit to when somebody brings it out . I'm getting that they believe the organization itself is the temple of jerusalem and only those professing the seal of God are allowed to make dogma and church rules , others are used to enforce the rules or to try and exsplain the rules . They've been saying that they recognize the great crowd since 1935 with the millions now living propaganda but it's obvious they have not since most people from that era are dead and the great crowd exit the world at the conclusion of this system of things .(that is the only way to "recognize" the great crowd)

My belief is that jesus was simply promoted to Mighty God as written in Isaiah 9:6 . The apostle Paul wrote alot of things describing the relationship , one God , one christ pretty obvious a trinity was not in the works there . 1st corinthians 8:4-6 To name one ..... He He no pun intended there ..

anytime you wish to discuss your exsperience as a J-dubby I'm all ears .......

A Paduan

no one can confess 'Jesus is Lord' except by the Holy spirit

acadian

Hi all, I have a question. If Jesus was a ransom for mankind or those who believe in him, then wouldn't he have to be equal to Adam as far as being a man/human? Otherwise he would be paying that ransom with something of greater value, than what Adam lost? What kind of test would it be if Jesus was a Godman/divine, he could overcome any test easily, but were he a mere man, that test would be equal to Adam's test of not disobeying God. Any thought's? Acadian

AuldSoul

Augustus Caesar was considered a divinity. The Pharoahs of Egypt were Ra incarnate. This concept of deity incarnate (Gods in flesh) was hardly unique to Jesus. Dionysos was mortal and was made immortal by Nysa, at the direction of Zeus. So, the concept of mortal flesh becoming immortal was also not unknown. For another example, Heracles (Hercules, to the Romans) was half mortal-half God, but eventually became an immortal God.

Ultimately, the point is in the titles "Son of God" and "Son of Man". It signifies the nature, or sort of being described. Jesus bore both titles. He was of both natures. However, the point seems implicit that he also recognized both natures in his disciples. He called them the light of the world, even as he caled himself, and he called them his brothers.

What kind of test would it be if Jesus was a Godman/divine, he could overcome any test easily

In my opinion, acadian, this demonstrates quite a few unfounded popular assumptions about the nature of deity moreso than a sound argument in favor of the 100% fleshly nature of Christ. Through one man sin entered into the world, but more than the sins of one man had to be covered. The sins of all men, for all time, had to be covered. (Romans 5:19)

Spectrum, I encourage you to read Romans 5-8 again with your current understanding and see if you still see it the same way.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

Narkissos

If Jesus was a ransom for mankind or those who believe in him, then wouldn't he have to be equal to Adam as far as being a man/human?

By this (wholly unscriptural) logic, the "ransom" should have been a couple rather than a man...

Nowhere in the NT is Jesus described as "equivalent to Adam" in order to "pay" what Adam had "lost". This is Barbour & Russell's 19th-century doctrine.

Where a parallel is drawn between Adam and Christ (e.g. 1 Corinthians 15; Romans 5) it is (1) not related to the concept of ransom, (2) a positive yet asymmetrical parallelism: Jesus, like Adam, is the representative and the start of a new and better (spiritual, immortal) humanity.

acadian

Thanks AuldSoul, and Narkissos for your comments! I'm still confused, but Thank's! I'll keep reading the posts, in hope of understanding all these differant issues, until then I'll just keep treating other's as I would like to be treated and hope for the best. Acadian ~~~ of the too much for my brain to absorb class ~~~

FairMind

Gumby, this statement confuses me:

2. Again, who said Jesus is not made out of whatever god is made out of?

How could God be "made" out of anything? This implies a maker who made God as well as a maker of the substance of which God is. God must not be a substance that we can understand. Actually the substance of God is God himself and it as well as him have always been. God having always been is understandable in the context of existence outside the realm of time (God created the physical universe and our concept of time).

Warlock

Fair,

I occasionally listen to a radio program whose host is a born again Christian. He refers to God and Jesus as "being of the same substance" in trying to prove the trinity.

I know the WTS teaches that the ones who have immortality are Jah, Jesus and the 144,000. Everyone else will get everlasting life, but it is not permanent and could be taken away. At least that's my understanding.

Warlock

Let cut JWs some slack on Christ's status. They might be right.

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