What's the JW take on the medical condition Gender Identity Disorder? (page 2)

jwfacts

In Hobart Central congregation a transexual (Man -> Woman) started a bible study and coming to meetings. On her first meeting she went into the ladies toilet. There was an uproar, and she was told only to use the handicapped toilet.

The congregation wrote to the Australian bethel and the verdict was that to get baptised she would have to start dressing and acting as a man again. Any operations that she may have had were irrelevant, being born a man the Watchtower stance was that she must revert back to the gender of her birth.

Needless to say she stopped studying sometime afterwards.

scotsman

Hi happyathiest

Can I suggest that you have a look at this website http://www.gaywitness.force9.co.uk/ which is an unofficial website for gay JWs but also contains info on transgendered individuals. While it's not endorsed by the Watchtower Organisation the info it contains about their stance on the issue is pretty accurate.

Like the story from Hobart, I'm aware of a male to female transexual in London who became a JW and was told to revert to the gender they were born with to get baptised. It completely fucked with their mind. I'm assuming this info is just for the sake of discussion and that your sibling doesn't want to become a JW?

DaCheech

Some people are born with fem/male organs.... I would say to Bible thumpers "why did God allow this"?

All these religious views are man/cult made, If there was a God he would not let people be born with such dilemmas

diamondblue1974

Here the National Health Service (NHS) says that Gender Identity Disorder (GID) AKA transexualism can be effectively treated by hormones and surgery so people can live as the gender they 'know' themselves to be. However, I'm told that despite the condition being medically recognised that JW believe it is a 'lifestyle choice' (presumably like 'choosing' to be straight or gay as we all do :-) ) and one worthy of disfellowshipping. Can anyone give me opinion/references/links to anything on this area relating to JW. I've looked at official JW website and found nothing and a Google search was pretty useless.

I would agree that transexualism isnt an illness but is a general genetic disposition.

I can provide some general resources for the subject as my lead academic is both a transexual and a leading authority on the subject of gender studies.

DB74

diamondblue1974

Whittle, S “Respect and Equality: Transsexual and Transgender Rights”, Cavendish Publishing, 2002

Whittle, S “ The Transgender Debate: The Crisis Surrounding Gender Identities”, South Street Press: 2000

Whittle S, More K (eds) "Reclaiming Genders: Transsexual Grammars at the fin de siecle", Cassell Publishing, 1999.

Although there is no relevance to JWs it might assist.

DB74

HappyAtheist

Many thanks for all responses and links provided.

In answer to the query about 'accomodation' of non gender conforming people by non judeao/christian countries, I refer to this Wiki entry as an example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender#Transgender_in_non-Western_cultures

It seems that 'third sex' types had a variety of positions/roles in their societies. With the spread of 'western values' (AKA judeo/christian in this context) it seems that the condition of third sex people declined. e.g. in India the Hijra had a middling social position some 200+ years ago until the British imposed their own morality via law etc.. The Hijra are now so marginalised that they cannot get gainful employment and thus are left with the usual options for people in such straits.

HappyAtheist

PS DB74 Yes, Stephen Whittle, one of the good guys. I remember seeing him on TV (Newsnight?) a couple of years ago (and a documentary I think) and making a man from the EvilAngelical Alliance look stupid for the bigotry he was advancing.

diamondblue1974

PS DB74 Yes, Stephen Whittle, one of the good guys. I remember seeing him on TV (Newsnight?) a couple of years ago (and a documentary I think) and making a man from the EvilAngelical Alliance look stupid for the bigotry he was advancing.

Hehe that sounds like Stephen Whittle through and through; as a student I remember hearing him tear a strip of another student for expressing quite a narrowminded and bigoted view but especially because he expressed 'his own' opinion. His words can clearly be remembered even now; 'frankly I dont give a shit what 'you' think, and wont do until you are able to express your view in a Phd thesis'. I did laugh! DB74

Swan

I can't quote any WTs, but I would venture that transexualism is prohibited because men are expected to dress as men, and women as women.

There is a scripture in Deuteronomy they like to bring up, conveniently ignoring that it is an Israelite law, which JWs are no longer supposed to be bound by. That is one way to refute it, but maybe the best way to refute it is to tell them that there is a verse nearby prohibiting the wearing of polyester suits! Then counter with the argument that their own Bible says that when God created humans, it says "male AND female he created them." Not male OR female! And in fact, some babies are born with both male and female genitalia. They also believe that life as an individual in God's eyes begins at conception. Hence, abortion is wrong. If that is true, then how can all the men in the congregation, including the elders and Governing Body, be in good standing when they all started life as girls! Hormones to change some girls into boys are naturally introduced to the embryo weeks later. Do they all need to start living as women to be acceptable JWs in God's eyes? There are so many ways you can twist around their arguments, but the bottom line is, like homosexuality, they will never accept it. Hopefully with these arguments your brother can at least shut them up. Good luck to him! Tammy

Swan

In Hobart Central congregation a transexual (Man -> Woman) started a bible study and coming to meetings. On her first meeting she went into the ladies toilet. There was an uproar, and she was told only to use the handicapped toilet.
The congregation wrote to the Australian bethel and the verdict was that to get baptised she would have to start dressing and acting as a man again. Any operations that she may have had were irrelevant, being born a man the Watchtower stance was that she must revert back to the gender of her birth.
Needless to say she stopped studying sometime afterwards.

I just remembered something. In Acts (chapter 8 I think), Philip the Evangelizer, one of the 12 apostles, started preaching to an Ethiopian eunuch. The eunuch asked "There is a body of water; what prevents me from being baptized?" And Philip baptized him then and there. He didn't tell him to wear a fake beard, talk in a deep voice, to start dating women, or any such nonsense like that. He, and apparently Christ, just accepted this eunuch "as is."

Tammy

What's the JW take on the medical condition Gender Identity Disorder?

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