responding to the Reasoning book on birthdays?

by BlackSwan of Memphis 22 Replies latest watchtower bible

BlackSwan of Memphis

Hi all.
I am helping someone out with a response to a jw about birthdays. She wants to be able to have a comeback to his programmed response.
I am looking at the reasoning book section on birthdays.
This woman is a lovely, devout Christian who knows her way around a bible pretty well.
Can anyone help us come up with logical responses to the programmed responses that come out of the Reasoning Book?
Thx in advance.
This is the Reasoning Books response:
*** rs p. 68 - p. 70 Birthday ***
Birthday
Definition:
The day of one’s birth or the anniversary of that day. In some places the anniversary of one’s birth, especially that of a child, is celebrated with a party and the giving of gifts. Not a Biblical practice.
Do
Bible references to birthday celebrations put them in a favorable light? The Bible makes only two references to such celebrations:
Gen. 40:20-22: “Now on the third day it turned out to be Pharaoh’s birthday, and he proceeded to make a feast . . . Accordingly he returned the chief of the cupbearers to his post of cupbearer . . . But the chief of the bakers he hung up.”
Matt. 14:6-10: “When Herod’s birthday was being celebrated the daughter of Herodias danced at it and pleased Herod so much that he promised with an oath to give her whatever she asked. Then she, under her mother’s coaching, said: ‘Give me here upon a platter the head of John the Baptist.’ . . . He sent and had John beheaded in the prison.”
Everything that is in the Bible is there for a reason. (2 Tim. 3:16, 17) Jehovah’s Witnesses take note that God’s Word reports unfavorably about birthday celebrations and so shun these.
How
did early Christians and Jews of Bible times view birthday celebrations?
“The notion of a birthday festival was far from the ideas of the Christians of this period in general.”—The History of the Christian Religion and Church, During the Three First Centuries (New York, 1848), Augustus Neander (translated by Henry John Rose), p. 190.
“The later Hebrews looked on the celebration of birthdays as a part of idolatrous worship, a view which would be abundantly confirmed by what they saw of the common observances associated with these days.”—The Imperial Bible-Dictionary (London, 1874), edited by Patrick Fairbairn, Vol. I, p. 225.
What
is the origin of popular customs associated with birthday celebrations?
“The various customs with which people today celebrate their birthdays have a long history. Their origins lie in the realm of magic and religion. The customs of offering congratulations, presenting gifts and celebrating—complete with lighted candles—in ancient times were meant to protect the birthday celebrant from the demons and to ensure his security for the coming year. . . . Down to the fourth century Christianity rejected the birthday celebration as a pagan custom.”—Schwäbische Zeitung (magazine supplement Zeit und Welt), April 3/4, 1981, p. 4.
“The Greeks believed that everyone had a protective spirit or daemon who attended his birth and watched over him in life. This spirit had a mystic relation with the god on whose birthday the individual was born. The Romans also subscribed to this idea. . . . This notion was carried down in human belief and is reflected in the guardian angel, the fairy godmother and the patron saint. . . . The custom of lighted candles on the cakes started with the Greeks. . . . Honey cakes round as the moon and lit with tapers were placed on the temple altars of [Artemis]. . . . Birthday candles, in folk belief, are endowed with special magic for granting wishes. . . . Lighted tapers and sacrificial fires have had a special mystic significance ever since man first set up altars to his gods. The birthday candles are thus an honor and tribute to the birthday child and bring good fortune. . . . Birthday greetings and wishes for happiness are an intrinsic part of this holiday. . . . Originally the idea was rooted in magic. . . . Birthday greetings have power for good or ill because one is closer to the spirit world on this day.”—The Lore of Birthdays (New York, 1952), Ralph and Adelin Linton, pp. 8, 18-20.
Wholesome
gatherings of family and friends at other times to eat, drink, and rejoice are not objectionable
Eccl. 3:12, 13: “There is nothing better for them than to rejoice and to do good during one’s life; and also that every man should eat and indeed drink and see good for all his hard work. It is the gift of God.”
See also 1 Corinthians 10:31.
moomanchu

The JW,s lie when they say there was only two birthday celebrations in the bible.
Jesus's birth was the most celebrated birth ever. Which leads to why not celebrate christmas?
BlackSwan of Memphis

Hey that's a really interesting point I hadn't really thought of!!!
Thx
BSoM
greendawn

That is the usual twisted JW reasoning, there is no way to conclude that birthdays are bad just because the two mentioned in the Bible had bad associations to them.

I also noted that two of their four book references are 19th century, but more importantly no one celebrating his/her birthday think of them as being associated with magic, demonism and paganism.

If we take things back to ancient times even weddings have pagan origins.
robhic

Job 1:4 And [Job's] sons went and held a feast in the house of each one upon his day; and they sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
Job 1:5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt-offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and renounced God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.

I guess this can be viewed in different ways but I always thought it represented Job's kids having birthday celebrations. Doesn't "Upon his day" scream birthday? It certainly isn't a funeral or wedding anniversary...
NeonMadman

I guess this can be viewed in different ways but I always thought it represented Job's kids having birthday celebrations. Doesn't "Upon his day" scream birthday? It certainly isn't a funeral or wedding anniversary...

Yes, especially in light of this other text from the same book:
Job 3:1
It was after this that Job opened his mouth and began to call down evil upon his day.
Job 3:2
Job now answered and said:
Job 3:3
"Let the day perish on which I came to be born,
robhic

I didn't write the following. It was written by [[email protected]] but gives some interesting thoughts regarding birthdays:
By celebrating an individuals birthday one gives too much honor to such a individual.
I find this argument amusing. What is too much honor? How do you measure that? By who is determined what is too much? Do you give more honor celebrating a person’s marriage or his birthday? This argument is way too arbitrary. What does the bible say about giving honor? "to him who [calls for] honor, such honor" (Rom 13:7). Also Jesus tells us: give Caesar what is due but God what is he due. This also involves honor. Therefore, it is not wrong to give someone honor, as long as it doesn’t result in worship as this is something that is only reversed for God.
*** Rbi8 Romans 13:6-7 ***

For that is why YOU are also paying taxes; for they are God’s public servants constantly serving this very purpose. Render to all their dues, to him who [calls for] the tax, the tax; to him who [calls for] the tribute, the tribute; to him who [calls for] fear, such fear; to him who [calls for] honor, such honor.
Jesus’ death day is to be commemorated.
based on Luk 22:19,20 and 1Kor 11:25,26.
The conclusion that we should memorialize Christ’s death is correct. It is however not connected to the current issue. The fact that we have to commemorate Christ’s day of death doesn’t mean we should not or cannot commemorate / celebrate birthdays.
The early Christians did not celebrate birthdays.
Correct. This in itself doesn’t mean much: they didn’t wear jeans either. The reason behind it is what counts. It is interesting to note why the early Christians did so. We will use Insight in the scriptures for this.
*** it-1 319 Birthday ***

However, there is no indication in the Scriptures that faithful worshipers of Jehovah ever indulged in the pagan practice of annually celebrating birthdays.
*** it-1 319 Birthday ***

M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopaedia (1882, Vol. I, p. 817) says the Jews "regarded birthday celebrations as parts of idolatrous worship . . . , and this probably on account of the idolatrous rites with which they were observed in honor of those who were regarded as the patron gods of the day on which the party was born."
M’Clintock and Strongs Cyclop æ dia cite the reason: the Jews "regarded birthday celebrations as parts of idolatrous worship because of the rites. So celebrating your birthday was part of false worship in those days. This was the reason why Christians didn’t celebrate it. It would identify them as false worshippers.
See also:
*** w61 7/1 416 Questions from Readers ***

In ancient times birthday celebrations were associated with astrology. No doubt this is why the Scriptures tell only of pagans celebrating them.
We could ask ourselves the following question: is this still the case? If we celebrate a birthday are we regarded as worshippers of a pagan god? Is it still commonly associated with astrology or some religion? No!
The early Christians did not celebrate Christ’s day of birth.
This argument comes from Insight in the scriptures:

*** it-1 319 Birthday ***
With the introduction of Christianity the viewpoint toward birthday celebrations did not change. Jesus inaugurated a binding Memorial, not of his birth, but of his death, saying: "Keep doing this in remembrance of me." (Lu 22:19) If early Christians did not celebrate or memorialize the birthday of their Savior, much less would they celebrate their own day of birth.
We just saw that the early Christians had a very good reason not to celebrate their birthday: the Jews "regarded birthday celebrations as parts of idolatrous worship because of the rites involved. The celebrating of a birthday -any birthday- would associate them with false religion and astrology. That was the reason they didn’t celebrate it. It was not like: we don’t celebrate or memorialise the birthday of Christ so we will not celebrate our own, which is implied here.
BlackSwan of Memphis

Hi Greendawn, thx for the reminder about the origins of weddings. It is very true that we can find ‘pagan’ things in just about everything. Right?
Job 1:5
And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt-offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and renounced God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually
Ok, my concern with this verse is:
Could a jw come back with something in regards to Job needing to offer a burnt offering? What is the burnt offering for?
Awesome suggestions! Especially in light of the great articles that I got on another thread. These two should go together really well!
BSoM
greendawn

A lot of the things are simply common to all men, eg the pagans had temples and altars and offered incense or animals on them, the Jews had exactly the same, does that mean that they were borrowing from pagans? Of course not.
moggy lover

The chapter on "Birthdays" as found in the "[Human] Reasoning book is trite, mostly bunk, and deceptively misleading in that it makes statements that are contextually misapplied.
For instance the concluding sentence in the introduction says that birthdays "are not a Biblical practice" If that is the case then COs, Branch Overseers, WTS Presidents, Circuit Assys, District Assys, wedding rings on the left ring finger, driving cars, watching TV, eating pizzas, etc etc are'nt either. So what? You mean we should'nt do them? Where does one draw the line at unsuitability of practice, simply because it is'nt a "biblical" practice.
The [Human] Reasoning book misses the point of both the birthday celebrations mentioned in Scripture. Because blood was spliied on those days the conclusion is drawn that it is the PRACTICE that is condemned. By the same "reasoning" we could conclude that because so many people are killed by cars on the road, driving should be banned. The point is that "Bad Drivers" and not the act of driving are the culprits. The birthdays mentioned were of men who tended to violence as a way of life, and who would have used any occasion to assert authority. So - it is the men involved NOT the day that was to be shunned. If anything all the Bible is cautioning against is:Don't behead anyone on your birthday!
In the case of Pharoah's birthday, the point behind this, was'nt to tell us how bad the practice was, but that God in His prividence acted on that day. Pharoah's birthday was said to be on the "third day" [Gen 40:20. Third day? Third day of what? Well look at vs 19. Joseph was sharing a prison cell with two fellow inmates, one of whom was innocent, and one guilty. He then made a prophecy that in three days the innocent one would be vindicated, and the guilty party would pay for his crime by being hung.
Was this remarkable prophecy fulfilled? Yes, the Bible assures us, and in the most remarkable of circumstances, which even Joseph did not evidently forsee.[vs 22]
In the case of John the Baptist, it is assumed by the WTS that he was beheaded on that very day, of Herod's birthday. Nothing in the text allows us necessarily to draw that conclusion. Assumptions made by the WTS are distinctly imprecise when it comes to their dogma. They will leap down the throats of people who will assume that there were "three" wise men, but here at Herod's birthday they seem quite prepared to assume what the text does not choose to reveal. For all we know, John the Baptist could have been beheaded several days later and the head brought to Herod's daughter.
Most of the scholars quoted by the WTS in that article in the "[Human] Reasoning" are indeed quoted out of the contextual range that they were writing about. A thorough reading of these will reveal a far more balanced point of view. Many, like the International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia tell of many good things that were done on a rulers birthday, amnesties being granted, for instance [Vol 1, pg 515]
Jews have since antiquity, practised the celebration of the Bar-Mitzvah where a Jewish boy was considered to be a man on his thirteenth birthday. He was then said to be "Of age" Reference is even made of this in Jo 9:21 Without having kept some sort of record, the parents mentioned in that text would have had no idea when this had occured.
A word of caution regarding the "[Human] Reasoning" book: Like all the other humbug produced out of the cesspool that is WT Headquaters, it is not written to enlighten or even to inform. It is written to mould and influence. Like all good propaganda, it does not investigate the truth, but presents that version of its own platform which best suits its own purpose. The R&F are made to feel so self-righteous at not celebrating birthdays that they don't have time to investigate the harsher aspects ot the organisation they are primed to seve.
Cheers

responding to the Reasoning book on birthdays?

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