Revelation- Inspired or......A case of bad Chicken

by noidea 17 Replies latest jw friends

  • noidea
    noidea

    The book of Revelation is unlike any other book in the Bible. So many visions leaving many to wonder what do they mean? Supposedly, it holds the key to the future of mankind.

    John had been through so many trials and tribulations. One may wonder if under the same circumstances how we would we hold up? Examining the question the answer I came to regarding myself, it would have drove me nuts.

    Then the topic was discussed in chat:

    Was the book of Revelation inspired or could it have been.........
    He was half out of his mind...It was taken for being inspired because of who he was. If not inspired, what could have driven a man to such visions???

    1. Bad Weed
    2. Too long in prison
    3. Too much sun from when he had been shipwrecked.
    4. Maybe it was the voices that drove him out of his mind.
    (the voices someone stop the voices)
    5. Was upset at someone and had his panties in a wad.
    (enough to drive anyone crazy)
    6. Too many shots of Tequila
    7. Not enough shots of Tequila
    8. Couldn't find a decent pair of shoes
    9. No more MTV.
    (is that still on?)
    10. He got a hold of a bad piece of chicken.

    I feel that this is something that needs some reflection.

    If you were John exiled on an Island what kind of things could have inspired you to write a book like Revelation?????

  • StifflersErSlayersBrother
    StifflersErSlayersBrother

    Me, bro, and sis-n-law were talkin bout this last night. What if the entire book of revelation, is one big acid trip? Makes ALOT of scince, if you think about it.

  • noidea
    noidea

    Stifflers,

    If you want my opinion, I think it was the bad chicken.

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    I like the acid trip theory myself, seeing as how LSD is can be formed by the action of a common fungus on ordinary grain. During the Middle Ages, there were stories of entire villages going "mad" when the local grain supply at the mill became contaminated.

    ...or maybe John enjoyed really earthy 'shrooms?

    "I wish to see, and I mean this most sincerely, I wish to see the last King strangled with the guts of the last Priest." - Voltaire
  • ballistic
    ballistic

    I don't know what John was on when he wrote it, but what were the bible students association on when they tried to interpret it?

  • noidea
    noidea

    Nathan,

    And what kind of common fungus on ordinary grain would that be????

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Noidea,

    Thanks for asking! The fungus is commonly called ergot. Here's a short article I just filched off the Web:

    ergot, disease of rye and other cereals caused by the fungus Claviceps purpurea. The cottony, matlike body, or mycelium, of the fungus develops in the ovaries of the host plant; it eventually turns into a hard pink or purple body, the sclerotium, or ergot, that resembles a grain of rye in shape. The sclerotium contains alkaloids (many of which are biologically active) that are toxic to humans and livestock. Ergot poisoning, or ergotism, epidemic in the Middle Ages, results from eating bread made of rye contaminated with ergot. Ergot poisoning is characterized by constriction of blood vessels, resulting in numbness and the development of gangrene in extremities; it may also affect the nervous system. Some of the alkaloids in ergot, e.g., ergotamine and ergonovine, are used as medicines; these alkaloids are chemical derivatives of lysergic acid, which is used in the synthesis of the hallucinogen LSD. Ergotamine alleviates migraine headaches. Ergonovine is used medicinally to stop hemorrhage and cause contraction of the uterus; during the 17th cent. midwives used ergot to stop postpartum uterine bleeding.

    Here's another that discusses other magic substances as well:

    One man's paean to mushrooms, mold, and mildew
    Sunday, November 21, 1999

    By MARY ESCH
    The Associated Press

    Be grateful for fungus. Sure, it's to blame for athlete's foot, moldy bread, and that slimy mildew on your shower curtain. But without fungi, there would be no beer, no penicillin, no gorgonzola cheese. And we'd be up to our necks in dead plants and animals if there were no fungi to rot them.

    In fact, fungus has had a key role in human history. Just ask George Hudler, professor of plant pathology at Cornell University.

    Better yet, read his book.

    In "Magical Mushrooms, Mischievous Molds" (Princeton University Press, $29.95), Hudler shares an infectious fascination with fungus that overtook him like a religious conversion 30 years ago, when he was in forestry school.

    The epiphany came as he peered through a microscope at mold spores, "lined up in a row like eggs inside a balloon." At that moment, Hudler says, "my life took on new meaning." He was hooked on fungus.

    For the past 10 years, Hudler has shared his fungal fervor with Cornell students in a popular undergraduate course by the same name as his book, published this year.

    Hudler introduces the book with a series of stories demonstrating the role of fungus in history. For instance, the infamous witch trials in Massachusetts had their roots in fungus-infected rye that sickened people and cattle so they displayed symptoms attributed to evil spells.

    Ergot poisoning from moldy grain also was responsible for numerous epidemics in Europe over the centuries. The hideous illness, sometimes called Saint Anthony's fire, caused burning pain before limbs would blister, rot, and fall off.

    Hudler tells how a chemist at Sandoz Pharmaceuticals in the 1930s isolated a potent hallucinogenic compound from the ergot fungus: LSD. It was enthusiastically embraced by the CIA as a potential mind-control agent in the 1950s, before it became a popular recreational drug.

    Some scholars believe the great philosophers of ancient Greece -- including Socrates and Plato -- gained inspiration through the ceremonial drinking of a secret, sacred beverage in the temple of Eleusis. The hallucinogenic purple potion is believed to have contained a crude form of LSD, derived from ergot-infected grain.

    Ergot derivatives also are used in modern migraine medications such as Cafergot and Ergate.

    A toxin produced by another grain mold causes internal bleeding and strangulation death. The U.S. government accused the Soviet Union of dropping that toxin in the form of "yellow rain" during the Vietnam War. But some scientists later theorized that what villagers called yellow rain was actually the feces of massive swarms of bees, Hudler writes.

    Molds are not the only fungal sources of toxic, hallucinogenic, or medically useful compounds. Mushrooms had a celebrated role in human culture long before Timothy Leary extolled the mind-altering virtues of psilocybin from "magical mushrooms" in the psychedelic Sixties.

    Several centuries ago in Siberia, Hudler writes, an explorer discovered that people enlivened life in a harsh land by eating hallucinogenic mushrooms. Those too poor to afford the fungi enjoyed its effects secondhand -- by drinking the urine of the mushroom-eaters.

    Some scholars believe the same mushroom -- fly agaric -- was the Soma, a mysterious life force worshiped by ancient Hindus and a factor in the genesis of modern religions. The Soma was passed from one person to another through urine. It is said to have had one foot and a red-and-white head -- a good description of the fly agaric, or Amanita muscaria.

    There is evidence that the ancient Mayans also used the fly agaric in shamanic rituals. And some scholars have suggested that the red-topped mushroom, rather than an apple, was the forbidden fruit in the story of Adam and Eve.

    Interwoven with Hudler's entertaining accounts of the role of fungus in history, culture, medicine, and everyday life are detailed explanations of the underlying science -- including classification, structure, chemistry, and growth habits.

    For instance, he describes how a fungus called Phytophthora infestans awakens from winter dormancy to produce wind-blown spore capsules, which disgorge swimming spores onto potato plants. The spores germinate, grow threadlike into the plant, and produce enzymes that digest tissue. Infected potatoes turn to putrid mush.

    That's what happened in 1845, when a devastating blight led to the Irish potato famine. More than a million people died.

    Lest his readers write off fungi as vile and destructive, Hudler devotes the latter half of the book to the benefits derived from fungi. Penicillin, for instance. And Cyclosporin, a mold-derived drug that helps prevent rejection of transplanted organs.

    The shiitake mushroom, long used in East Asian medicine as well as cuisine, produces potent anti-tumor and antiviral compounds that are being investigated as treatments for cancer and AIDS. Some common North American mushrooms also have been shown in clinical trials to have therapeutic effects against cancer, hypertension, and hepatitis B.

    Hudler devotes a chapter to the biology of yeast and how its metabolic processes are put to use in making bread, beer, and wine.

    "Let me assure you that for all the problems fungi have caused, they have also extended our lives and made them far more enjoyable," Hudler writes. He invites any reader who remains unconvinced to stop by his office at Cornell.

    "We'll chat," he writes, "for as long as it takes."

    "I wish to see, and I mean this most sincerely, I wish to see the last King strangled with the guts of the last Priest." - Voltaire
  • Mommie Dark
    Mommie Dark

    This seems the ideal place to suggest you try John Allegro's book _The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross_.

    He talks about the alkaloid properties of amanita, and how some Essene inititates would eat the mushrooms and suffer the toxic neurologic effects so the priests could collect their urine for a safer shamanistic trip for themselves.

    Revelation makes a lot more sense if you consider it a dream or drug hallucination.

  • Cowboy
    Cowboy

    Yeah,the 'shrooms........gotta be the 'shrooms.

    Or did they have peyote over there?

    Cowboy

    We ride and never worry about the fall
    I guess that's just the cowboy in us all

  • patio34
    patio34

    Hi NoIdea,

    I enjoy this topic. Here are some thoughts from the book "Deceptions and Myths of the Bible" by Lloyd Graham regarding Revelation.

    Much of the Bible is borrowed, the author claims, from other religions.

    E.g., Rev. 12 about the dragon waiting for the child to be born and the child saved, the woman fled to wilderness. Then being cast down. "There is nothing new in this story, rather myth. Cronus sought to destroy Jupiter, but the "holy" child was saved by being wrapped up in rags, matter, and cared for by Amalthea in the hills, wilderness.

    "According to another myth, Dione, the mother of Apollo, when purused by Python, fled into the wilderness.

    "In still another, Eurydic was chased into the woods by Aristaeus, god of herdsmen, and there killed by the sting of the serpent, matter.

    "In Eyypt it was Isis fleeing with her "divine son" Horus, when pursued by Typhon.

    And let us not forget Mary fleeing with her "diving son into Egypt when threatened by Herod.

    In Rev. 12:10 about the accuser of our bretheren cast down: Among the Romans, Lucifer rebelled and was cas down to the bottomless pit called Orcus, earth. The Titans of Greece made war up Zeus and were hurled down to Tartarus, a place lower than Hades the sun, hence also the earth.

    In India, Maha-sura envied Brahma his glory, led a legion of rebellious sprits vs. him, but Siva cast them down into Honderah, the place of darkness. In persia, Tiamat, the adversary fought with Sosiosh, the Creator, who, overcoming her, formed the earth from her body.

    In Rev. 11:17 it speaks of O Lord God, which art and wast, and art to come. Again, the beast that was, and is not, and yet to come (8th). The idea is by no means peculiar to Hebrew scripture. In the Bhagavad-Gita, Vishnu says of himself "I am the beginning and the middle and also the end of existing things." and Horus of Egypt said: "I am yesterday, today, and tomorrow."

    And he goes on and on. The point is that almost all of the Bible was borrowed from surrounding peoples and edited, embellished.

    The book, and others, point out countless examples of similar plagerisms. One of the biggest is Jesus Christ and the borrowings from Persians and Mithraists.

    But, I guess I've made my point. John was just fancifying all the religious myths he'd heard his whole life. Maybe even going senile?

    Pat

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