I agree with some of the previous posts.
Yes, God has always saved those who were faithful to him.
That Savior is Jesus Christ. There will not be another Ark, we will not need to put lambs blood above our doorways. We won't need to submit to any organization.
As the Philippian Jailer asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household." Acts 16:30-31
The Challange of Faith
by truth_be_told 41 Replies latest jw friends
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Kristofer
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truth_be_told
For those that spit venom at the GB may I kindly remind you what Jesus said in Matthew 25:40 & 45.
And may I ask have you ever meet these men in person, I have, at least 4 of them. They are nice guys, human and normal, but it has always been clear to me they had Jehovah's Holy Spirit helping them accomplish their assignments. They lead an organzation of over 6 Million, it's impossible to please all the people all the time. The more you do, the more chances at some point you will mess up, and make somebody unhappy.
Also if you dispute bible facts, then really your issue is not with JW's, but with the bible itself. I have 6 different bible's now, and I can teach somebody the truth from every one of them too. I don't think the bible is the issue on most of the post's I am reading, rather the issue is how Jehovah & Jesus despense authority on earth right now. Most seem to disagree on the way it is being done, because it's a flawed system due to imperfection of men, not Jesus who controls the congregations. Jesus and Jehovah move to clean any problems that come up, sadly like the end not coming fast enough, these problems getting fixed sometimes are delayed from our perspective too. Since I have seen the Holy Spirit in action to clean up problems, where there is no chance it's a fluke either. It works, it really does, but you have to give it time to work. Until then one scripture that I always remember is in Hebrews 5:8 "Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered". If Jesus had to do it, so do we, these will include all internal tests that we face too. I feel so sad if you have been faced with one that has caused you to "fade". If you can't go to meetings, prayer and bible reading is the start to the way back to spirituality.
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Kristofer
I think your Matthew reference is perfect. How much charity does the WTBTS actually do. How many charities, hospitals, volunteer organizations does the Watchtower run?
What about other Christian denominations: Catholic, Protestant, Presbyterian, etc..I think if anyone is carrying out charity in the way Christ asked, it's these.
TruthBeTold, I agree, Prayer and reading God's word is wonderful path to spirituality. However, I don't know how with 6 different Bibles you can reconcile the differences in the New World Translation. i.e. Worship of Jesus, Christ dying on the cross, Christ declaring himself the "I AM".
I find another Bible verse to be very important here as well, being that there is ONE Gospel. Galatians 1:8. What is the gospel that the apostles preached? Is it the same thing Jehovah's Witnesses are preaching as they go door to door? Are they really doing God's work as it was done in the early church? -
Narkissos
Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, YOU who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for YOU from the founding of the world. 35For I became hungry and YOU gave me something to eat; I got thirsty and YOU gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and YOU received me hospitably; 36 naked, and YOU clothed me. I fell sick and YOU looked after me. I was in prison and YOU came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty, and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked, and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to you?’ 40 And in reply the king will say to them, ‘Truly I say to YOU, To the extent that YOU did it to one of the least of these my brothers, YOU did it to me.’
41 "Then he will say, in turn, to those on his left, ‘Be on YOUR way from me, YOU who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels. 42 For I became hungry, but YOU gave me nothing to eat, and I got thirsty, but YOU gave me nothing to drink. 43 I was a stranger, but YOU did not receive me hospitably; naked, but YOU did not clothe me; sick and in prison, but YOU did not look after me.’ 44 Then they also will answer with the words, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them with the words, ‘Truly I say to YOU, To the extent that YOU did not do it to one of these least ones, YOU did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.
It is a parable, with some paradoxical features.
Yet, the clear emphasis is on helping rather helpless and destitute fellows (be them "Christian" or not is another question). Do the Governing Body members, living in comfortable suites, fed and feared and travelled and worshipped by millions of people worldwide, ruling over the life and death of their followers by a mere penstroke, suit the picture?
In the Judgement scene both "sheep" and "goats" are surprised that the "Lord" identifies with these. I can't imagine a worst misinterpretation of this text than using it to promote respect for, and submission to, certain religious leaders in expectation of either reward or punishment.
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Leolaia
truth_be_told....Saying it is a flawed but spirit-directed system gives an easy explanation to everything...if things go right, it is due to God's spirit, if things go wrong, it is due to inevitable human flaws. But what is not questioned is the underlying premise....that the Society is God's sole channel. Everything proceeds from that assumption. But if that assumption is not true, then the picture changes dramatically. It would mean that the Society has presumptuously made grandiose claims for itself. Consider the implications of that. It would mean that they deserve your obedience no more than any other religion that purports to represent God (and there are many to fill those shoes). It would mean that whatever trials one faces in the organization are consequences of the failings of a human organization and not tests concerning the faithfulness to "God's organization" and God himself.
My "test" was the gradual realization that what I thought was the "truth" was in fact not true, that the publications made false and dishonest claims that could be discovered with basic fact-checking, and that the organization has a pattern of hypocrisy in its actions and policies. One could perhaps say that they are just imperfect men and dishonesty can be excused on that account, but that explanation did not work. I could not accept as "truth" what I knew to be "untruth", I could not go door to door distributing publications which contained misleading statements, I could not sit at the book study and let these statements pass without trying to correct them and point out the errors and misrepresentations. It wasn't a matter of waiting upon Jehovah for them to correct humanly error, it was more a matter of why would they lie to me?
Your post reflects the mind of someone deeply imbedded within a religion they believe wholeheartedly to be the "truth", and could well have been written by a Baptist, Lutheran, Catholic, or anyone else in "Christendom" who professes to have witnessed the Holy Spirit work wonders in their flock, who know many clergymen and ministers who are nice guys, human and normal, who acknowledges problems in their own religious organizations, but believe that regardless of whatever flaws can be found in their churches, Jesus still leads them and uses them to accomplish his divine work. You may be convinced that your church is the right church, but your conviction is not unique and can be found in almost any denomination. What is ironic is the fact that the Society can be very judgmental towards other religions for the very same imperfections that it wants excused for itself.
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mrsjones5
Simply put Truth Be Told, once a liar...
My father (a jw himself) taught me that when you find a little lie you will find more...he was right. I found the lies and it's amazing that my father can't see them. I think you see them but have turned your back saying it ain't so or making the excuse that "They" are imperfect men. You got that straight, they're imperfect and therefore totally not worthy of being my mediator. So yeah I spit on the governing body and the 144,000 - it's a lie.
Matthew 15:8-9 8 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'Matthew 23:23-24 23 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
My mediator is Jesus.
Josie -
Caedes
Welcome to the board tbt,
Hope you stick around and post some more.
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Witchettygrub
TruthBeTold, "If you can't go to meetings, prayer and bible reading is the start to the way back to spirituality." I agree and this is what I do now. Problem is that the org. has always said that this is not enough and that we are unable to have a relationship with Jehovah except through 'God's channel'. Witchettygrub
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truth_be_told
Why does the discussion on these boards remind me so much of a certain fictional conversation between a certain Evil Sith Lord and a Jedi Knight he was trying to convert to the dark side. The best line "Good is a point of view", and that about sums it up. At the end after the character had gone over to the dark side for selfish reasons, remarked that the good guys were evil from his point of view. Maybe you who know who this fictional character was, his name was Darth Vader.
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Kristofer
HAHAH...excellent analogy TruthBeTold. You've got a sense of humor too. I hope you stick around here. This board is much more interesting that way. But on a serious note, I think most people haven't left the org for selfish reasons. Most lose their most precious relationships. But sometimes truth, though liberating, is deeply hurtful and traumatic. No one seeks that selfishly