JC FILE NOTES - What do they contain? (page 4)

Had Enough

Thank you Amazing:

This is very interesting news to me. I always thought your file stayed "alive" forever so to speak and went with you wherever you go.

That's good to hear about the 5 year limit to hold onto a JC file and then destruction to follow.

As for checking with my "current" congregation as to my status, I am in "good standing?" so to speak, just not attending

Its amazing how much added rules and regulations goes on that doesn't have scriptural backing or direction and especially that the lowly r&f doesn't know anything about.

Always glad to learn of these facts, Amazing.

Amazing, thank you for all the work and thought you put into your posts. You are a wonderful asset to this board.
I've asked questions about "The Files" before. I'll jump in on this thread.
Lets say that a publisher has charges levelled against him. Actually more like innuendo than real charges because he has done nothing wrong therefore no witnesses or any other evidence. (OK, I got on the "bad side" of an elder known as "The Enforcer" for several years) Would the file contain records of these charges? Knowing this elder, he would have made his own notes from his "police work".
Have you ever seen elders add additional material to someone's file after they are df'd?
Finally, if anyone has managed to get their file would you like to share with us what you found? I'm not asking for the "juicy details" of the offense, but rather what the elders put on paper.
mike

911 is the number you call AFTER the shots are fired.

Bendrr

MadApostate, sounds like you've considered the same idea I have.
As far as whether the files are actually kept at the KH, I couldn't tell you. But you can be sure that at least some congregations don't follow that rule, just as many files are never destroyed after 5 years.
You should assume that the KH in question has an alarm, err on the side of caution. You may not have been going in this direction with your post, but I will take and run with it in that direction anyway.
What the files are kept in is of secondary consideration. But you should know in advance so you will know how much the file cabinet or safe weighs. I really doubt you will find too many actual safes. A locking file cabinet is much cheaper.
You should consider the location of the KH, and be familiar with police patrols in that area. Your first plan should be a quick escape route, not how to get in or where the files are located. Will there be people in the area such as at neighboring businesses or houses and will you or your vehicle be visible to them during the "visit"?
Once that is planned, you must know where the files are kept in the KH. You should be able to enter, grab the cabinet, and leave in 30 seconds or less. I say grab the whole cabinet because you will waste precious time by rifling through it looking for your name. Also, by grabbing the whole thing you also have the opportunity to liberate the files of others and anonymously mail them out to those who may not even know they exist.
For instance, my files are stored in the back room of a KH that has a door in that room that opens to the outside. The door is only a few feet from the cabinet and is not visible to neighbors. That door could be opened, cabinet retrieved, and the area cleared within 30-60 seconds. Assuming the alarm has a phone connection, it would still take 2-3 minutes or even more for police to be called and then 1-2 minutes for the call to go out over the radio. Note: don't try it alone! You don't know how heavy that cabinet is. My partner and I could have that cabinet in the trunk of my car and be turning onto the interstate onramp before the call goes out. I post this because we have discussed it, he has the necessary experience from Army Special Forces but haven't tried it because he gets a little nuts sometimes. (he wants to blow the building up to get the cabinet)
Your best bet is to get an inside connection who can get the file, photocopy everything therein, and return the envelope. If you want to make a statement, then return the envelope with the photocopies and keep the originals. That would scare them a lot more than burglary.
I am not encouraging anyone to break the law. Your file is not worth going to prison for.
(be careful if you do, though)
miike.

911 is the number you call AFTER the shots are fired.

Winston

Cassiline,

You asked:

Dear Amazing & Winston and any other member of this board who were once Elders,
I was wondering if you shared what you may have learned in a JC with your spouse or friends. I am asking because it always seemed the sisters knew what was happining in the "back room". The gossip was always so bad in my hall/s.
I am not condemng you by asking this I was/am curious. I am sorry in advance if this question may offend anyone.

The answer is an embarasing YES!
But in all honesty it was mainly my wife, she had pretty tight lips and I only told her a small amount of things like when we caught a fellow elder who handled the congregations accounts who had stolen $5000. And when I new someone was a child molester. Their were a few other things but mainly I did not tell very much.
Elder do talk among themselves and reveal quite a bit of what is happening in their congregation to other elders who are there close freinds.

Former elder turned apostate (by WT definition)[:)}and proud of it!

Vitameatavegamin

I can sure remember a Judicial Committee I had to go before when I was about 16, one of the Elders asked me who unbuttoned who's shirt first. He was asking me all these ridiculously detailed questions like he was getting off on it or something. Finally, one of the older Elders with some sense told him that those questions were all unnecessary as they were all married men and knew full well how things worked. Sometimes I think there are Elders out there that enjoy hearing this stuff!

Thanks.

ballistic

SO vita, who was it?

Bendrr

Do elders spill the beans? Yes. Sometimes I don't fault them a bit for it.
I remember when my family moved to Perry where the need was greater. (gag)
I remember my dad coming home from elders meetings and how he was so quiet and his head literally hung low. I mean it, he would trudge in with stooped shoulders and his head down and I knew just stay the hell out of the way.
He and my mom would have long talks late into the night, their little tv on obstensibly to drown out their distinctive voices in my young and still good ears. I don't really remember specific conversations, don't really care to either. But I do know that Mom was there for him and listened and yes sometimes she would offer her opinion. But I never heard Mom repeat anything, she wouldn't even say anything to me. Through those years, she was a faithful wife. She comforted him, she provided an ear to listen and a shoulder to cry on and I know he shed many a tear on that shoulder.
Mom was and is the epitome of all that is good in elders' wives. They bear the private burden all elders carry and keep the confidentiality the elder himself finds it impossible to maintain when his heart is breaking. A true elder's wife carries twice the load of her husband. He knows and can try and handle the situation. She knows but must truly keep silent, except for comforting the weeping man in her arms.
I know there are plenty of "elderettes" who make all elders' wives look bad, but please instead give credit to the good ones.
(love you, mom)
mike

911 is the number you call AFTER the shots are fired.

dannyboy

Cassiline,

I'm out and gone from the borg now, but as an elder, I was very careful not to reveal ANYTHING to my wife/family/others about any Judicial stuff I was involved in. Even to the point of not telling my wife who/where I'd be going with/to when out on that kind of work. I think many sincere elders follow/followed this policy, we were reminded about it often enough.

It used to burn me up to hear about other elder's "loose lips", and I was not shy about pointing out how unkind it was to spread other's private faults around like that.

Actually, to this day, I have maintained as confidential stuff I learned about others while an elder, though like other former elders here abouts I may talk about the substance without the detail, to enlighten others.

I think you also asked about being told the reason for a Judicial Meeting: Absolutely a person should be told "why"..... An accused person might be able to bring witnesses to such a hearing to refute the charge. Sadly, many elders seem to go for the "lying in wait", ambush-type judicial meeting (sort of a Mike Wallace-type thing, if you will). Thinking to be able to break down the resistance of a potential liar, etc. This was the unkind/unchristian/inhuman approach taken towards Ray Franz, as related in his book Crisis of Concience.

Most elders have not sat on the "other side of the table", and I think many would change their approach if they ever did.

>>Edited for clarity of thought DUH <<

Amazing

Hi Bendrr: You asked:

"Would the file contain records of these charges?"

Normally no file is created unless a JC has been formed. If just an Elder has concerns and makes some allegations, the matter is supposed to be investigated by two Elders first. If they discover reason to move forward, then a JC is formed to meet with the person accused. It is when this meeting started with the accused that my own note taking commenced. Then I would make a file and place any notes from the other Elders.

You asked,

"Have you ever seen elders add additional material to someone's file after they are df'd?"

Yes. But only if the DF person has made a written request for reinstatement. And thier letter plus any notes taken from a meeting to consider reinstatement would be added. Keep in mind this was the case up to the early 1990s. I understand that the Society recently instructed the Elders to not keep notes in the files anymore, once an action is ocmpleted. Or to at least keeps any notes very brief. - Amazing

Pork Chop

Accurate information Amazing. The notes from some Judicial actions that I've seen have been scant to the point of nonexistance, just the meeting date, participants and outcome. Great if you're dealing with an Appeal.

JC FILE NOTES - What do they contain?

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