The "Sovereignty" Doctrine is Stupid

by metatron 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  truthseeker

  Good points Metatron, I've thought about this before.

  Universal sovereignty is not mentioned in the Bible, Satan is not even mentioned until the account of King David's census returns.

  I have never advocated man rule, but it seems as if the human race was set up to fail.

  1) Tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad - why was it put there? A simple test of obedience or a signal that rebellion was already brewing in heaven?

  2) Original Sin - we now had a limited lifespan, falling from 960 years to 70/80 years, although this has improved. But you never live long enough to really be an expert at anything.

  3) Inherited sin - none of us asked to be born in sin.

  4) Devil and demons influence - what right do they have to influence our civilization?

  Humanity was set up to fail, I never saw it as a fair test.
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  truthseeker

  I think the Society uses this doctrine of Universal Sovereignty to justify "a precedent" - which maybe it does???

  In other words, when God intervenes and destroys the wicked, it can be said that man cannot rule himself by himself, and that God is needed.

  A precedent is set, so that any future New World rebels will not have another chance to start a rebellion lasting thousands of years.

  In my opinion, the precedent would serve its purpose, but I will never believe thatafter the Thousand Year Test is over that evil will never exist.

  As long as intelligent creatures, whether heavenly or physical, have free will, they will always have the potential to do wrong because they can and because they want to.

  Why would anyone do wrong? Why would anyone go against God's laws after the Thousand Year Test? Because they might just feel like it. They might want change.

  And you cannot stop individuals from wanting change for the sake of it, against all better judgement.

  The 6,000+ year wait to settle the issue of universal sovereignty, with us humans used as pawns, would be better classified as an extreme form of cruel and unusual punishment.
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  truthseeker

  Just read a post on E-Watchman, that really sums up how I feel about the Special Talk.

  http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1168

  However, I did feel the talk outline was desperate in its attempts to convince us that God is still in control.
  
  After all, it did not really address the issue that if Satan is the god of this world and the Kingdom is established, why is it many feel God lacks control? If, as the Watchtower teaches, the Kingdom has been already established, why does it seem so ineffective?
  
  I noted there was no mention of the 1914 doctrine, as I am sure it would confuse the minds of new students in trying to reconcile how Jesus' Kingship remains dormant, while Satan can use his influence to such a large and often successful degree.
  
  Whether the talk motivated new ones to seek a Bible study remains to be seen, but I did not note any requests for such after my meeting.
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  greendawn

  The JW theology is an absolute mess not just the sovereignty issue but just about everything they originated or took from other groups similar to them sooner or later proves false.
  
  It takes a lot of religious and philosophical training to produce sound religious ideas unless one is inspired with direct divine revelation something that the FDS of the JWs is not.
  
  Russell, Rutherford, Franz have all been incapable of producing sound doctrine that can withstand the test of time. Their ideas have been causing harm rather that good.
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  LDH

  how Jesus' Kingship remains dormant, while Satan can use his influence to such a large and often successful degree.

  It's half time! As soon as Satan's pawns finish their crummy half time show, Jesus is gonna come off that bench and kick some booty!

  Interestingly, during what is supposed to be his "reign" on earth, he does nothing but whistle and wait.
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  drew sagan

  This follows a list of doctrines that have no direct Bible quote to back them up. The list is endless. JWs start talking about all the people that are going to be instructed during the 1000 years and how Gods Universal sovereignty was challenged and that's why we are in the mess we are in. So many things like this aren't spelled out in the Bible, but JWs take the liberty to create their OWN ideas to fill in the gaps. Everything sounds so perfect, expect for the fact that in the end none of it makes sense.
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  RR

  I never accepted the soveriegnty doctrine either. If true, than all Jehovah had to do was sit back and let mankind destroy themselves. Had he not interfered in their affairs time and time again. Babylon could have built the bomb back then had Jehovah not interfered and distorted the language.

  Then all he had to do was sit back and say "see, I told ya!"

  RR
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  freetosee

  To r51785,

  Not only JW’s, but also the Second Day Adventists as well as Johannes Greber (often quoted by the WTS in the past) have a similar concept of Gods sovereignty and omniscient / omnipotent powers. And if I remember correctly, William Miller ( Millerites movement ) is the originator of this which was adopted and further developed by SDA later Russell and his successors.

  Having a unique doctrine doesn’t necessarily disqualify a religion. But if it lacks or contradicts to common nature of its claimed basis the bible it is rather nonsense.

  It never made much sense to me, why Jah is all-knowing, can prophecy thousands of years ahead of time, and yet chooses not to foresee what Satan, Adam and Eve might do, since “unforeseen occurrence befall them all…” Ec 9:11

  By the way, J. Greber’s medium was inspired by repentant fallen angels.
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  minimus

  Met, it's stupid to you because you see things from the human perspective. God's ways and thoughts are higher than a mere mortal's. Having said that I could never figure the obviousness of the sovreignty doctrine either.