Is Jesus Mediator for the Great Crowd's prayers?

jwfacts

The Watchtower makes the claim that Jesus is only Mediator for the 144,000 because only they are in the New Covenant. However I was looking on wikipedia.org and there is a statement that the Watchtower does teach that Jesus is Mediator for the prayers of the Great Crowd.

Does anyone know if this is correct? The articles that i have uncovered are all very obscure about prayer. They claim that Jehovah does listen to the prayers of the great crowd but does not make it clear that this has any direct relationship to Jesus Mediatorship.

The way I understand JW doctrine:

Jesus is Mediator to just the 144k, in that they become part of the new covenant

Jesus is High Priest for the Great Crowd, those that are ressurected and the 144k

Jesus Ransom applies to the Great Crowd, those that are ressurected and the 144k

Is this correct?

moggy lover

Yes to all statements.

This begs the question that you raised: How the bloody hell can the JWs possibly pray "in and through the name of Jesus"? Evidently by being "associated" with the "anointed" the "benefits" of this mediatorship flows down onto them. In his book COC, Ray Franz adresses this dilemma. On pg 234 [that is in my edition the 85 revised edition. Pages may be different in other editions] he suggests that the WTS believs that there is a meaningful difference in being a mediator, and being "interested" in the Other Sheep. Which means that despite the fact that He does not mediate on their behalf, He is still "interested" in them.

Yeah right

Cheers

heathen

I've seen that on the board alot . The book publishing corporation thinks it is the mediator for the GC , according to them the GC can only be saved by obedience to them . Jesus did mention that by feeding and clothing and visiting his brothers in prison that he would judge the dead as to whether they live or die but I don't see any mention of obedience to a publishing corporation unless you want to twist the part where he says his sheep listen to his voice or the FDS dogma . That is one hell of a book publishing corporation that wants to take the place of jesus as mediator . They also replace the kingdom of the heavens for the great crowd , the holy spirit and God. How quaint ............................

blondie

1 Timothy 2:1-8

2 I therefore exhort, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, offerings of thanks, be made concerning all sorts of men, 2 concerning kings and all those who are in high station; in order that we may go on leading a calm and quiet life with full godly devotion and seriousness. 3 This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4 whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—[this is] what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times. 7 For the purpose of this witness I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—a teacher of nations in the matter of faith and truth. 8 Therefore I desire that in every place the men carry on prayer, lifting up loyal hands, apart from wrath and debates.

We can see that Paul is addressing the issue of prayer in these verses, not Jesus acting as a mediator of the new covenant. There was no “great crowd” then, just Christians and non-Christians, and that Jesus was the only channel through which prayer could be offered to God by humans, not just the “anointed.”

The WTS frequently quotes this scripture in regard to prayer, not just the prayers, of the “anointed” but all who wish to pray to God.

*** w80 6/1 p. 18 Praying to Jehovah so as to Be Heard ***

How can we gain access to the great “Hearer of prayer”? He has appointed that this be through Jesus Christ alone. There is only one Mediator between God and men, and one High Priest, Jesus Christ. (1 Tim. 2:5; Heb. 7:25, 26) Jesus himself put it very explicitly, saying: “No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6) “Most truly I say to you, If you ask the Father for anything he will give it to you in my name. . . . Ask and you will receive, that your joy may be made full.”—John 16:23, 24

*** w74 7/1 p. 396 How the Use of Images Can Affect You ***

What about praying to Jesus’ earthly mother Mary or to particular saints for them to “intercede” with God on one’s behalf? The Bible’s direct answer is: “There is only one mediator between God and mankind, himself a man, Christ Jesus.”—1 Tim. 2:5, Je.

*** w72 6/1 p. 335 Take Time to Pray Every Day ***

There is one mediator, Christ Jesus, the appointed way to approach God. (1 John 1:9; 1 Tim. 2:5)

w57 12/15 p. 747 “Confess Your Sins” ***

Rather, as a loving Christian brother, he approaches God in prayer along with the spiritually sick one, doing so through the one Mediator Christ Jesus, and faithfully pointing out Jehovah’s loving provision for forgiveness

cabasilas

jwfacts,

I don't think the wikipedia article (at least on the main page) says that Jesus is mediator for any other group than the anointed. It's been a point of contention there and I've actually worked on the collaborative edit on that point. It's a point that some JWs want to minimize. AFAIK, the WT is pretty clear that "mediator" has a restricted sense to the "new covenant" and applies to the 144,000 only. However, JWs do believe that Jesus is the means of approach in prayer for all (pray through him but not too him). I'm not defending these beliefs...this is how I understand the WT's position.

garybuss

Jesus is the voice mediator but the organization supplies the dial tone. To get the dial tone, a person needs to be in *good standing* with the organization.

candidlynuts

i dont have any way of finding it but the insight book under "mediator" tries to spell out what the wtbs thinks on the subject.

basically they put the FDS in the place of jesus entirely, i remember reading that the first time when the insight book came out and gasped out loud. and i was still active back then!

OHappyDay

We can see that Paul is addressing the issue of prayer in these verses, not Jesus acting as a mediator of the new covenant. There was no “great crowd” then, just Christians and non-Christians, and that Jesus was the only channel through which prayer could be offered to God by humans, not just the “anointed.”

How come I never noticed that before? It's as clear as the nose on my face. Paul's context is prayer, not the new covenant. That makes sense because he is also speaking about the benefit of Jesus' mediation for everybody, or "all sorts of men," "for all."

This idea that Jesus is the mediator for only the 144,000 never did make a lot of sense. Maybe the 144,000 are the only ones taken into the new covenant. But as you show, that is not even the focus of Paul's words about Jesus being the "one mediator between God and men." It is prayer.

Thanks, Blondie, for turning on the light!

ozziepost

Then perhaps I could add:

Why not pray to Jesus?

There are examples in the NT of that, so why not now?

Remember this: it's the WTS that has made people believe that prayers are only through Jesus as mediator.

uninformed

Dhappy--Blondie

You made this comment:

This idea that Jesus is the mediator for only the 144,000 never did make a lot of sense. ; Maybe the 144,000 are the only ones taken into the new covenant. ; But as you show, that is not even the focus of Paul's words about Jesus being the "one mediator between God and men." ; It is prayer.

Thanks, Blondie, for turning on the light! ;

Am I to assume that you guys are of the opinion that only the 144,000 are in the New Covenant?

I can understand the symbolic number of 144,000 being the only ones in the Kingdom Covenant, but I have been trying to develop the opinion that the New Covenant was a covenant between Jehovah and Mankind, mediated by Jesus. If we are not in the NC, then it would stand to reason that he is not our mediator.

So, if we claim him as our mediator we are in the New Covenant.

What is wrong with my reasoning????

u

Is Jesus Mediator for the Great Crowd's prayers?

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