Dealing with my mother

SickofLies

My mom knows that I really don't believe that the JW's have the 'truth' and she is always telling me to just give it more time and I'll snap out of it. She thinks I'm going through a stage right now and I'll 'grow out of it' and eventually I'll want to return to the religion. I try to reasure her that such hopes are futile, but often my conversations go like this:

Aren't you afraid of God's judgment in denying him if your wrong?
Most certainly not. I also deny Zeus and Jupiter and Odin and Brahma, but this causes me no qualms. I observe that a very large portion of the human race does not believe in God and suffers no visible punishment in consequence. And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence.
How do you as a scientist explain the beauty and harmony of nature?
I do not understand where this "beauty" and "harmony" are supposed to be found. Throughout the animal kingdom, animals ruthlessly prey upon each other. Most of them are either cruelly killed by other animals or slowly die of hunger. For my part, I am unable to see any great beauty or harmony in the tapeworm. I suppose your thinking of such things as the beauty of the starry heavens. But remember that stars every now and again explode and reduce everything in their neighborhood to a vague mist. Beauty, in any case, is subjective and exists only in the eye of the beholder.
You're only saying this because you've never been in the world and you don't know how bad it is out there.
In a sence I've always been in the world, I don't isolate myself from other people or refuse to talk to them because there not of the same religion as me. So I know what other people are like, besides you make the assumption that those who are in the 'truth' are spared any ill effect of the world, which clearly isn't true. Plus, I'm no fool, 99% of the people I know at univeristy are extremely happy and doing well, while 60% of the people in my kingdom hall are on antidepressants.

But alas, I'm not getting through because it seems we keep having the same conversations over and over, any sugestions?

sass_my_frass

Nice. You are honest and articulate. If you're saying exactly that to her, you're doing nothing wrong, and I say keep doing it. As someone who had a whole lot to fight before overcoming the indoctrination process, I suggest that your mother can hear what you're saying but doesn't want to accept it, and so pushes it aside. Maybe every time it comes up there's a slightly different flavour; something she thought she could nail you on, but it turns out that she can't. If you're interested, you can set her free. Just pace yourself.

My mother would hear the words once and shut down for all time. Or maybe not, I don't know; I don't have the expressive capacity to get across what I believe in now or why I don't believe what she does. Anyway, I'd be doing her a big favour to help her out but am not doing so... but good for you for being kind to yours.

freedomlover

Nice reply.

I have to take some notes to use when I talk to my grandma. She uses the same questions!

BTW - you look just like someone I knew growing up. Ever live in the states?!

SickofLies

freedomlover,

Ya, I lived in the US for 9 years, my parents still live there, I moved to Canada because 1. I was born there 2. I got accepted into McMaster 3. I wanted to get as far away from my exwifes family as possible :)

sass_my_frass,

I think your right, my mom does seem to be coming along, I'm just glad she is listening, thats why I don't just DA because I really think I can save her. I feel bad though in a way because its all shes known for so long, she has a lot of friends there. But I also know the elders harass her and she is constantly complaining over the injustice in the congregation. I now at least now she doesn't look at the society as being infaliable. I told her about the UN and some other things and they didn't suprise her at all, she went through the 1975 incident and reconises that the society is imperfect. She says that she never believed the end would come in 1975 and people would look at her as some kind of apositate for saying that. The one thing she's hung up on is that the JW's are the only ones doing the preaching work and she says that when she goes door to door she talks to many people and none of them use the bible are able to prove her wrong. Now I can do a pretty good job of disproving the bible, but I don't want to do that, I feel no need to remove all religous hope from my mom, I just want to have a balanced view of things. I'd just be happy that if I DA myself that we would still talk. I think I'm almost there with her.

penny2

Hi SickofLies

I'm amazed actually that you are able to have this type of conversation with your mother - it sounds at least like she is not getting too emotional and she's giving you the opportunity to answer. I'd suggest you keep going the way you are - try not to get exasperated or angry. At the moment she is not taking on board what you are saying because she has been indoctrinated and can only think one way. But you never know at what point this may change. A turning point for me was a conversation with a person who was leaving the "truth" - he said he expected not to die in Armaggedon and to get old in this system. It stopped me in my tracks because he sounded so convinced and he looked so happy - even at the prospect of getting old.

In my experience, mothers get very emotional (I can't bear to be in the new system without you; my life will be wasted if you leave the truth; etc etc). I find that difficult to deal with, although over time, those occasions have become less.

penny2

Poodles

I thought this topic was interesting even tho my mother is no longer with us!! My mom became a JW about 30 years ago along with her husband at that time, (3rd one)!! After becoming a JW she said she could no longer have a relationship with me unlest i converted! Naturally, i freaked, she also spoke about my not sending her birthday, christmas, etc cards because if i did she would just throw them away!! My mom said all kinds of weird things her church expects of her so we argued about it just like we always did about everything!! I still love my mom and i never held her being a JW against her!

Why is it that some JW's obey all the rules and some only obey a few and have the nerve to call themselves good JW's!! My boyfriend accepts cards for all holidays and gifts, he uses the "F" word, drinks and is having sex outside of marriage!! I don't know how a person can live with themselves and look in the mirror w/o feeling shame!!

sass_my_frass

Yeah. I'm not going to inspire them to leave because:
- it's all they know; they think they have the meaning of life and consider themselves happy. It took so long for me to find that again that I wouldn't want to impose that kind of pain on them
- like all of us, they lose all their friends. I don't want to drive somebody towards that pain.
- I cannot by myself fill the gap they'd discover on leaving - I can't be all their friends and family. And to be honest I don't want to be there for them 24/7 while they get themselves together. It's a long process and I've already been through it.
- basically I suppose I'd like them to realise the happiness that I've gotten, but accept that as they're adults they have the same capacity as I did to get there.
- I love them deeply and the sense of responsibility to help them is overwhelming, but I think they're better off making any changes on their own, and that is better for me too.

Tough call hey.

SickofLies

You hit the nail on the head sass.

It's just annoying always have to listen to them spew all that watchtower crap all the time, but in the end I just want them to be happy, not force them to make a discession they will regret or resent me for.

Dr Jekyll

Problem solved!

I know a bloke that's in the white slave business, he does a roaring trade to the middle east and Africa, if you want I can give you his number and maybe he'll give you a good price for your mum

lol

Dealing with my mother

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