Kool - Aid

by dozy 18 Replies latest jw friends

  • dozy

    I was puzzled by the numerous references to this as we don't have this product in the UK , but realise (after googling) that it refers to the Jonestown massacre. The implication presumably being that JWs are so dumb , they will do anything that those in authority ask them to do. (Shame this doesn't apply when I am looking for volunteers to stand in for the TMS.) Interestingly , Kool-Aid maintain that their product wasn't actually drunk there.

    According to the Kool-Aid FAQ, "It is a popular misconception that 900 followers of cult leader Jim Jones committed suicide by drinking Grape Kool-Aid laced with cyanide at their commune in Jonestown Guyana in the late 1970's. The followers of Jones actually drank cyanide laced Flavor-aid, a cheap imitation of Kool-Aid."

  • Honesty
    The implication presumably being that JWs are so dumb , they will do anything that those in authority ask them to do.

    Some JW's are very intelligent. All JW's are very deceived because they believe that someone has to tell them what God meant when they read the bible. If God is love and is so smart then why in the world would he write a letter to His children that they could only understand if some human interpreted it for them. Now that is really Goofy.

  • whyizit

    Maybe I'm a little cynical, but what difference does it make? I mean, even if they drank LEMON ADE! The result was the same, wasn't it? Was it sweetened or unsweetened? (Who cares?) The point is, they drank poison for their divinely inspired leader.....or so they thought he was divinely inspired.

    I am not a JW and never have been. The reason: They won't clearly and honestly answer my questions. That has been MY experience.

    I believe that the majority of Jehovah's Witnesses are very intelligent people. VERY INTELLIGENT! And I believe that thier leaders have appealed to their intelligence and their quest for knowledge. Have you ever noticed that almost all of the WTS books repeat the same exact things over and over again? They want you to learn certain doctrines above anything else. And they do not want you to do any research from resources other than what they supply you with. It appears to be like this: "We already studied that, here's your answer, trust US, or you are doubting Jehovah." When I get a doubt in my mind about something, I go to the Scriptures and I study and pray and find the answer. I don't doubt Jehovah. But I do doubt what other people tell me is Jehovah's will according to them. People make mistakes. Jehovah does not.

    Here is a for instance:

    The Blood Doctrine.

    Acts 15:28-29 Abstaining from blood. If you read the entire context of Acts 15, this is dealing with fellowship between Jewish and Gentile Christians, right? So they narrow it down to "don't do these things" because they are highly offensive to the Jewish Christians and they might fall away as a result. If a Jewish person has always butchered meat kosher style and feels that it has to be bled, and some Gentile brings in a goat he just strangled and expects the Jews to dine with him, that could create a rift. I can see that. I don't think circumcision would be quite as noticeable, on the other hand, for obvious reasons. So that wouldn't be necessary. But WHERE, please show me, does it say anywhere in Acts 15 that you will lose your eternal life if you eat blood? Acts 15:7-11 - How are we saved?

    You see, this blood thing is a big red flag for me. And I have not met a JW yet who will give me straight answers to my questions. They try to drag me into another area. Change the subject. Have me looking up a zillion verses that don't even apply to blood at all. If just ONE JW would truthfully and clearly answer my questions on this issue, or admit that they just cannot, I would respect that. But all I get is a big bunch of jumping around from this to that. I want to discuss the blood! That costs lives. Will I let my child die, because some group of guys who claim to be divinely inspired, decided that a blood transfusion is not allowable? Didn't they forbid vaccinations and organ transplants? But now it is okay? Did the Bible change, or did THEY change their perception? Can you see why this is a concern to me?

    The Jonestown Massacre may seem like a harsh comparison, but when you consider the people who have died for lack of a blood transfusion, or even in the past--people who died because they didn't get vaccinated or an organ transplant---because their leaders have taught them that it is wrong and that Jehovah will annihilate them if they do......

    I've looked up nearly every Scripture that has the word BLOOD in it, and nowhere does it say that you will lose your eternal life if you get a blood transfusion. That is where I am at. If you can clear up my questions, then you may win a convert here. Otherwise, I am stuck thinking that this practice is unBiblical and dangerous.

  • Gretchen956

    Well I don't know about in Britain, but here in the States we tend to call something by its better known brand name. For instance, Xerox came out with the first copy machines. Now you rarely see a copier thats a Xerox, but most people call them Xerox machines. So I can see why Kool-Aid would be saying what they are, however, the same principle applies. Until you posted I didn't even remember that Flavor Aid existed, its all Kool-Aid.

    As for the witnesses, I don't think we think they are dumb. I sure don't. Many of them could be highly intelligent. But they are brainwashed, that is the key. They are deluded into believing everything that comes out of Brooklyn, and they are misguided into not questioning, no matter how much cognitive dissonence is involved.

    I am one that believes that a good share (not all) of the witnesses would drink if they were asked to. Six months ago or a year I would have thought all of them, but there are active witnesses on this site and others who have indicated there is a small faction within who do NOT believe and who are NOT misguided, but go to keep their families together. Those people have started thinking for themselves and questioning.


  • Gregor

    Yep, it's all about blind, unquestioning obedience. The term has also been applied to fervent supporters of a particular political position (usually Liberals) calling them Kool Aid drinkers.

    Hey, that would make a cool avatar!

  • greendawn

    I could never figure out whether they used Kool aid or Flavour aid but the idea stack that it was Kool aid something negative for the image of that brand. If they are trying to shake off that image by falsely associating Flavour aid with the massacre I don't know.

  • whyizit

    I just can't stop thinking about this.

    900 followers of Jim Jones died drinking the Kool Aid (oops, I mean Flavor Aid). 900! A big number. Historic.

    Does anyone have any numbers on how many Jehovah's Witnesses have died from refusing a blood transfusion?

    How about back before organ transplants were allowed? How many died? How many have decided to have an organ transplant, since the WTS switched it's position?

    How many died, because they did not get vaccinated? How many now get vaccinations and see nothing wrong with it, since the WTS switched it's position on that?

    Any numbers out there? I'm very interested.

    And how many JWs would get blood transfusions, if the WTS switched it's position on that as well?

    How many of the people who lost loved ones due to no vaccinations or organs would say, "Gee, if only they would have switched that a month earlier, my grandpa,(or sister, mother, child, uncle) would still be here. Oh, well......no biggie!"

    And what constitutes "switching" the rules? Did Jehovah mess up? Could He not find people who could clearly write exactly what He wanted written? Or could it be that this group of men that profess to be speaking for Him, are making assumptions and making a lot of mistakes as they go along?

  • Leolaia
  • james_woods

    I believe that I remember Time or Newsweek making the comment that Jones had his lost sheep drink sort of a pseudo-death ritual fairly often to brainwash them into being ready for the big moment. The theory was that they didn't know if there was poison in the coolaid (sic) or not, (in these rituals) but they showed loyalty by drinking it anyway. If true, it could mean that he was always a suicidal loony who was looking to kill all these people all along. Also it would mean that these poor people had lost all sense of reality a long time previously.

    There were a lot of the JWs taken aback by this news. More than a few had a sort of epiphany on cult behavious. I know for a fact because I was an elder and several of them came to me to talk about it.


  • Sad emo
    Sad emo

    Since I found out a few months back that Kool-Aid was a fruit drink and not a brand of antifreeze () I've thought along the lines of it representing the well disguised wrong teachings of a cult (eg blood doctrines) which only become apparent once you've 'drunk' all the more desirable teachings such as eternal life.

    Kool-Aid/Flavor-Aid - different disguise - same poison

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