by Dogpatch 23 Replies latest jw friends

  • Check_Your_Premises

    I'm all for sticking it to the wt and all...

    ... but I hope it isn't ever done on the basis of bad legal precedent.

    It just seems having the right to not talk to someone should be within the rights of any individual. Is it a right for an organization to impose on it's members?

    I donno. I will leave that to the small, furry rodent types (aka lawyers).


  • Narkissos

    OutnFree: Here you go:

    Btw, the second text posted by Randy is not "comments" but a translation of the main body of the original court judgement (which I already posted on MotemaBolingo's thread,

  • candidlynuts

    so am i understanding this right?

    disfellowshipping may infringe on the freedom of religion rights of the congregation members because it mandates shunning? not necessairly that it infringes on the rights of the disfellowshipped person?

  • skeeter1

    You see, law does change. Chip, chip, chip goes the WTS. Imagine if EVERY disfellowshipped person was able to sue....


    p.s. Deepest sympathy to Ore-bore-us who will, as Hank Williams sang, have a tear in his beer over this decision.

  • Swan

    I guess I must be really tired tonight, but I just don't get it. What is really being said here?


  • skeeter1

    I am not sure exactly what this Belgium court is saying about the freedom of worship & shunning hurting that. I need to see the court documents to know precisely this Belgium court's angle.

    But, I have seen writings that state that

    1. Freedom of religion = the freedom to choose a religion, AND
    2. Freedom of religion = the freedom to LEAVE a religion, AND
    3. Freedom of religion = the freedom to DISAGREE with a religion.

    Shunning is an impediment to the freedom to leave/disagree with a religion, especially when it involves breaking apart the family structure. The family unit is the bedrock to our society and very important to governments. The family unit is each of our safety nets for when we get into trouble. Who is the first person you call when you're having a really big problem? Dear old comforting Mom or money-bags Dad, I bet. For those of us with children, who is the one who can make your worst day bearable? Your child. When you are old, who is willing to talk & walk slow with you? Your grandchild. That is why the State has a say in marital, divorce, adoption, domestic relationship law. Losing one's family contacts will drive you nuts or make you a street bum, as the people on this website will attest to. Organizational-induced shunning breaks apart your family bonds. It's what keeps some in, some unwilling to leave due to feared divorce/shunning by their child, some who will only speak against the JWs under fake names, etc.

    Ask those on this web-site, "Does being trapped in a religion that you disagree with because you are afraid your family members will shun you, kick you out of their house, not allow you to see your children, grandchildren, parents, siblings, etc., not take you in when you are sick/hungry/down on your luck, a real fear that keeps you going to the KH against their own desire to leave the religion and worship elsewhere (or nowhere)?" Unless another Belgium court overturns this decision, if you are a Belgium JW who has been disfellowshipped (i.e. shunned by friends and family) you can sue the WTS. Belgium court decisions are not binding on US courts. But, US courts do sometimes quote court cases from other countries and use their reasoning. In otherwords, this decision is another chip into the WTS's fortress.


  • DannyHaszard

    Dedicated to my family members , nieces and nephew Lauren, Ashley and Kevin Haszard that have gone missing in the Jehovah's Witnesses.

    I wasn't allowed to know WHAT YEAR my beloved disabled JW mother died!

    Curse you watchtower flunky hack bastards-Danny Haszard

  • Narkissos


    I think you didn't get it (understandably, because the Court argument is pretty confused and somewhat contradictory): Jacques lost the case. Because he failed to prove that the WTS' instructions about df'd persons resulted in any prejudice of discrimination in the legal sense (e.g. employment discrimination) in his case.

    A minor positive, though: the court acknowledges that the WT teachings regarding df'd persons are instructions, not only neutral exposition of Bible advice, and that they may result in discrimination. E.g. if a JW boss fires a df'd worker. Even in that case the JW boss, not the WT, would be directly guilty of discrimination.

  • pmouse
    I wasn't allowed to know WHAT YEAR my beloved disabled JW mother died!

    (((Danny!!!))) What kind of a cruel organization this is to divide families in the name of love? I only wish just one case would make a precedent. What a wonderful opening to the floodgates of justice that would be....

  • DannyHaszard

    I haven't seen my JW Baby sister (Tonya Marie Haszard born in 1975 whan i was 18 years old) in 15 years and don't know if she is dead or alive if married,what her married name would be now.Last known location Naples Florida usa

    The same goes for FOUR generations of JW family.

    WHO does this except the Jehovah cult?

    Bible thumping Jehovah's Witnesses make the Taliban look tame,the Nazis look nice and they make Charles Manson look like Charlie Brown.

    Don't you Jehovah's Witness family wrecking devils ever trespass on my private property to recruit any of my new surrogate family members or I will XXXX you.-Danny Haszard

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