Jehovah's Witnesses and the Third Reich-NEWS wire

by DannyHaszard 14 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • DannyHaszard
    DannyHaszard

    http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&q=jehovah%27s+witnesses&btnG=Search+News highest ranked news as i type Jehovah's Witnesses and the Third Reich - Sectarian politics under ...
    Evangelical Times, UK - 16 minutes ago
    ... secondary sources. The book addresses the relations of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Germany with the Nazi regime from 1933 to 1945. Penton ... Jehovah's Witnesses and the Third Reich - Sectarian politics under persecution M. James Penton University of Toronto Press 412 pages, £22.50, ISBN/ISSN 0802086780 This is a specialised book, extremely well documented with new primary and secondary sources. The book addresses the relations of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Germany with the Nazi regime from 1933 to 1945. Penton challenges some long-standing assertions by JW leaders relating to this period — particularly the claim that the Witnesses were politically neutral in early 1933. In chapter 1 the author provides evidence that there was an attempted compromise with Hitler when he came to power in 1933. In this context, he documents Judge Rutherford’s remarkable change of thinking with regard to the Jews. Rutherford, the American-based leader of the movement, said in 1932 that ‘fleshly Israel had no specific role to play in salvation history’ (p.8). Penton provides ample evidence to establish that Rutherford did not like the Jews (p.10). He also shows that there was an anti-Semitic tone to the movement’s 1933 Declaration of facts . Chapters 2 and 3 look at the evidence and arguments used by both sides in interpreting the Declaration . Chapter 4 provides a history of the movement in the US — showing that Rutherford was not ignorant of the nature of Nazism when he wrote the 1933 Declaration . Chapter 5 surveys and interprets the work of JWs in Germany during 1902-1933. After 1918, Germany became ‘a hotbed of the Watch Tower Bible Students. Only the United States had more members’ (p.137). Penton maintains that it is ‘impossible to believe that German JWs did not have a clear understanding of Nazism, and their publications indicate this’ (pp.147ff). Contrary to Watchtower claims, the author shows convincingly that ‘no more than two-fifths’ of the Watchtower community in Germany remained loyal. Many renounced their faith and the remnant ‘were often divided among themselves and sometimes treated one another badly’ (p.159). Chapter 6 acknowledges the suffering and courage of some members in witnessing and suffering imprisonment or martyrdom, though a lack of wisdom on the part of the leaders ‘created more problems and unnecessary suffering’ (p.185). The author’s final conclusions are fair and well supported by the historical evidence. He writes, ‘neither the Watch Tower Society nor Witness apologists provide a complete picture of why they were persecuted or how they behaved under persecution. Jehovah’s Witnesses make much of their victimhood under the Third Reich yet they conveniently ignore a number of facts’ (p.236). Those facts include their failure to recognise that ‘they themselves were in part responsible for their sufferings … Long before Hitler came to power, Judge Rutherford had made them hated by the vast majority of Germans … the record is clear that during the summer of 1933, Watch Tower leaders at all levels attempted to ingratiate their movement with the Nazis by attacking Great Britain, the United States, the league of Nations, the churches, and above all the Jews’ (p.237). The book is a valuable resource for researchers — for whom it is enhanced by interesting appendices and a detailed bibliography. Eryl Davies
    Evangelical Theological College of Wales
    ------------------- Danny Haszard's comment If "persecution" proves that a religion is true, then the Jews must really be the true religion. For the record it is true they will not fight for their country and they didn't fight against Hitler either.They were interned in Nazi concentration camps that were then liberated by young allied men who died to set them free.

  • DannyHaszard
    DannyHaszard

    See:
    http://www.randytv.com/Hitler/watchtower_hitler.htm

    ... an estimated 6 million Jews, between 200,000 and 800,000 gypsies, 200,000-300,000 disabled people, 10,000-25,000 homosexuals, 2,000 Jehovah's Witnesses, up to ...

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    Was it not the leader of the German JWs that cooperated with the Nazis, and was then after the war reinstated by Knorr as the Bethel head in that country? That's what I read somewhere. People that complained about him were expelled from the org.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    I am sorry, but I find it utterly deplorable when I read anyone insinuating that Jehovah's Witnesses "brought the persecution on themselves" or any such formulation.

    The Witnesses' record may not have been as uniform and without complication as they claim in their literature, but the fact remains that they certianly had a better record of conduct during the Nazi period than any of the other churches.

    This review is interesting, but the one I am really waiting to read is Richard Singelenberg's review of Penton's new book: has anyone read that review in the Journal of Chruch and State? If so, what can they tell us about it?

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    I am reading Penton's "JW/Third Reich" book currently. He carefully weaves together a lot of documentation about how "Judge" Rutherford, the WT's second president, invited persecution upon the JW's due to his constant insults and reviling of anything outside of JW's. It also showed how the "Declaration of Facts" included language intended to placate the Nazi regime. When this effort failed, Rutherford instigated a letter writing campaign to Hitler.

    Rutherford declared spiritual warfare. In doing so, he unnecessarily alienated big business, Catholics, Protestants and Jews.

    Instead of being neutral as the WT claims, the WTS became an active resister of the Nazi movement. They also became politically involved here in the USA when it would serve to attract members to the JW movement.

    The WTS leadership was anything but "cautious as serpents yet innocent as doves" during Rutherford's autocratic blustering rulership.

    That having been said, the principled stand taken by many Central European JW's against Nazism and Facism during the 1933-1945 cannot be denied, and is not denied by M. James Penton.

  • Odrade
    Odrade

    bttt

  • Poztate
    Poztate
    I am sorry, but I find it utterly deplorable when I read anyone insinuating that Jehovah's Witnesses "brought the persecution on themselves" or any such formulation.

    Slimfatboy...You are right..Jehovah's Witnesses did not bring persecution on themselves.Rutherford as self appointed and only spokesman for God did it to them. The rank and file or ordinary were only willing sheep being lead to the slaughter by the rantings and ravings of a lunatic cult leader. Fortunately the GB are much less looney now..

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat
    You are right..Jehovah's Witnesses did not bring persecution on themselves.Rutherford as self appointed and only spokesman for God did it to them. The rank and file or ordinary were only willing sheep being lead to the slaughter by the rantings and ravings of a lunatic cult leader.



    I am afraid that presentation is almost as bad. To accept that view one must also believe that the ordinary Witnesses were mindless automotons who could not possibly act otherwise than to spout and distribute whatever they were told to. I think they, and humans in general, deserve a bit more credit for detemining their own course of action than that. "Brainwashing" is a concept too readily appealed to when persons wish in retrospect to justifly or give extraordinary explanations for actions they later regret. That is not to say there are not extreme cases in which brainwashing does occur, and people really do lose the ability to make their own decisions (like under torture), but this must be clearly distinguished from the kind of social pressure that all individuals are subjected to in all societies from various associations.

    Besides, against your presentation that it was soley down to the leadership that the Witnesses suffered is the inconvenient fact that many Witnesses acted as stubbornly against the Nazis individually and in isolation from other Witnesses and suffered accordingly - without being goaded on by anyone else.

  • DannyHaszard
    DannyHaszard

    Hitler - Jehovah's Witnesses' secret lover?
    Kentucky Lake Times, KY - 11 hours ago
    According to a review for the book Jehovah's Witnesses and the Third Reich, this is an "extremely well documented" book "with new primary and secondary sources ...

    Hitler - Jehovah's Witnesses' secret lover?

    According to a review for the book Jehovah's Witnesses and the Third Reich, this is an "extremely well documented" book "with new primary and secondary sources. The book addresses the relations of Jehovah's Witnesses in Germany with the Nazi regime from 1933 to 1945. Penton challenges some long-standing assertions by JW leaders relating to this period - particularly the claim that the Witnesses were politically neutral in early 1933."

    The review states: "In chapter 1 the author provides evidence that there was an attempted compromise with Hitler when he came to power in 1933. In this context, he documents Judge Rutherford's remarkable change of thinking with regard to the Jews."

    "Contrary to Watchtower claims, the author shows convincingly that 'no more than two-fifths' of the Watchtower community in Germany remained loyal. Many renounced their faith and the remnant 'were often divided among themselves and sometimes treated one another badly' (p.159)."

    "The author's final conclusions are fair and well supported by the historical evidence. He writes, 'neither the Watch Tower Society nor Witness apologists provide a complete picture of why they were persecuted or how they behaved under persecution. Jehovah's Witnesses make much of their victimhood under the Third Reich yet they conveniently ignore a number of facts.'"

    You can read more about this book on the site where it is reviewed.

    Related: Jehovah's Witnesses sell out to cash in - "exquisite waterfront views, with a lush 85-acre park setting, meditation room, refrigerated storage for grocery delivery ... residents may purchase their own ...private riverfront cabanas." (No Christian denomination has historically ever accepted Jehovah's Witnesses as Christian.)

  • DannyHaszard
    DannyHaszard

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/108507/1.ashx related thread on JW and Nazi and their comparative mindset

    This is of special interest to me as the JW Nazi propaganda puff piece "Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose" was sacred in the Haszard house growing up early 1960's

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