So much criticism...but what's the answer?

by thankyou12 35 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • KW13

    Well i started to attend Church of England and i am very happy but am determined not to be fooled ever again, i consider what is put in front of me, though that usually doesn't happen since we've not held to previous dates where God will destroy others bla bla bla and how 1914 was this and that, oh and we accept Secular history as a good source of evidence.

  • exjdub

    Welcome to the forum thankyou12! I think that is the beauty of leaving the Borg. You don't have to make those decisions right away. Take your time and investigate. Not only other religions within Christianity, but many different religions and philosophies if you would like. Please be assured that despite the brainwashing that we all received, the demons are not ready to fly into your head if you investigate other things. For myself, I decided to venture out of the Christian realm and look at other things, but you may decide to stay within the Christian framework. And if that is what moves you and makes you a better person, then that is wonderful. The best advice that can be given is try to enjoy the journey itself and bask in the feeling of freedom as you begin to learn about yourself and about other cultures, religions, etc. Good luck on your journey!

  • jgnat

    Hi, thankyou, and welcome to the forum. I believe the pursuit of truth is a noble cause, well worth a lifetime of effort to search it out. I do not believe a single organization owns the truth, because the truth stands invoilate outside the frailties of man. As long as human beings run things, there will be flaws. The real question is, are the flaws bearable?

    Does the bible not say that there's an organization of his on earth?

    No, it doesn't. In your pursuit of truth, you can try several things, but I don't recommend you run to another organization for answers. Spend a little more time learning more about what is important to you, what are the key principles that keep you going from day to day. Is it love? Reverence for life? Preservation of your family and raising up the next generation?

    I don't think you are ready for another group until you know your self better; what are your motivations and desires?

  • moggy lover
    moggy lover

    Hi, Thankyou 12, and welcome to the board.

    Just remember that you are among friends here and our aim will always be to help you find the "Truth" you seek. In this forum you will find a rich tapestry of ideas woven from many cloths, nutured in freedom and proclaimed in candour. Here debate is encouraged, because it is not a sign of discord, but of free minds coming together to uncover the very things you are pursuing. Unlike the WTS, we do not make the fundamental mistake of confusing "unity" with "conformity" Our unity serves a greater good, it is in fact formed by the expressed will of the many - not one imposed by an elitist, secretive group, whose only purpose is the maintanence of its own authority.

    OK - Let's see. You asked three questions: 1Where do we go for truth 2Where do we go to church 3Does'nt the Bible say that God has an org of his on earth

    Your third question is easiest to answer , so here goes: NO! In fact the word "organisation" is not found in the Bible. At Matt 24:45, which the WTS tirelessly tries to impose on its followers, we have a parable that Jesus specifically relates to the "Last days" and having given it He asks a question: "Who then is the faithful and wise servant?" Which is a frequent teaching aid used by the Master Teacher. It is used so as to get you thinking. When Jesus gave His parable of the Good Samaritan, He asked a question: "Who then was that man's neighbour?" The question was not to invoke the existence of a sort of "Good Samaritan Class" - but to motivate the hearer to come to a conclusion which illustrated the point of the parable. Similarly, at Matt 24:45, think for yourself: Would YOU make a faithful and wise servant for the master?? To make this parable mean that Jesus died and left an arrogant and self serving group of men in charge is to place an arbitrary and unwarranted explanation on it.

    Lets take a look at your first question: Where is truth? I suspect that a problem one can have with a question like that is to conclude that "Truth" is a "What" when essentially it is'nt. Only one man in the Bible asked the question: "What is truth?" and he was a pagan, Pontius Pilate. The question was asked of Jesus, [Jo 18:38] and He did'nt answer because He knew that the question was incorrectly framed. Its like asking someone to give you his weight in inches. Let's see what Pilate should have asked.

    At Jo 14:6, Jesus made one of the most profound statements in all literature.

    He said: I am 1The Way 2The Truth 3The life Now lets remove the bits we dont need and concentrate on the bits we do It comes out like this

    I am.......... 2The Truth

    According to the WTS "Truth" is a body of doctrine, a flexible locus of belief altered at a whim to suit any current tide of teaching.

    However according to the Gospel of John, "Truth" is'nt a "What" its a "WHO" and Pilate should have said :"Who is Truth" The quest for truth is as old as the human species, and each one of us must pursue the goal in his or her own way. Each must find his or her own essential truth. But for the past two millenia, those who have heard the echo of Jo 14:6 have sought it in a Person. The Truth is not the exclusive property of a capricious body of men who conveniently alter its meaning to suit their current purpose and who arrogantly claim to repesent Him. No. Truth is the embodiment of the Person who, according to the Scriptures, died for us.

    So - How do you reach this "Truth"? Which church to go to? Dunno.

    Why not ask Him?


  • zen nudist
    zen nudist

    That was the very question I asked on my exodus from the BORG....

    if NOT JW, then who?

    but I found that along the way, the THEN WHO? is already a false question. It assumes that some group already exists that knows THE TRUTH and that there IS a god or god[s] that ARE real... assumptions are very very insidious.... another standard assumption is that binary logic is valid...that every question can be boiled down to yes or no/1 or 0.

    using Binary logic, people like JWs create logic traps that make it SEEM like their veiw is the only rational view.... but often its just a house of empty cards built upon questionable assumptions and many excuses for any lack of tangible evidence.

    I determined to remain honest to my experiences and beliefs no matter where they would lead me and to challenge all assumptions within myself when ever I could find them or have them pointed out to me....

    so I found Agnosticism the only honest approach, perhaps you can find something else.

  • drew sagan
    drew sagan

    I can see this getting into one huge thread. Let me put in my 2 cents:
    If one wishes to still remain a Christian believer, but leave the Watchtower Society the question is often raised "where else will I go?". That question has been printed in the magazines, and is readily accepts by most Witnesses. There IS a problem with this thinking, a big problem. Christian scripture says that the foundation of the faith is Christ, not an organization. Release yourself from thinking that organization has anything to do with "true christianity" instead search out the answers for yourself. It's very hard at first. One of the hardest steps is finally realizing that you might go years or decades without all of your questions answered. Personally i'm at the point in my life where I've taken a step back and am reluctant to commit myself to any particular teaching because I know that more time is needed. We need to realize that all of lifes questions can't be answered in 180 page books. Instead we need to continue to search, continue to struggle, and continue to live. I quote somebody else (but I can't remember who) which said something along the lines of:
    "life is a journey, not a destination"

  • mdb
    You should decide what is truth for you. What works for me might not work for you and visa-versa.

    So, what you're saying is that if I decide for myself that my idea of truth (and what is right and wrong) allows me to put someone to death because they did evil against me (as far as I was concerned), that my actoins toward that individual would be justified?

    As to one's belief on God, you think one thing and I believe another, and someone else potentially has a different perspective on the matter. Who is right? There is only one right answer, one truth, one true God. 2+2=4, 2+2=7, 2+2=9... they're not all right even though in the mind of men a wrong answer is correct to them. The truth is 2+2=4, whether you believe it or not. Truth is absolute and you cannot logically make it what you want it to be. If you're uncertain of the truth, keep seeking to find it. Don't settle for that uncertainty. I know I have found the truth, or rather, the truth has found me. He opened my eyes and I am eternally grateful for His grace and mercy. Jesus is the only way, the truth, and the life. He is Lord and God, Savior and friend. You may desagree, but I cannot deny the One who saved me and I know with unwavering certainty that what the Scriptures (not the NWT) speak of Jesus Christ is the truth. As Keith Green (musician) put it, "I'd die for that faith; I'd die for that belief, because it's more than a belief. He lives in my heart. That's the only proof I can give you."

    You will not find the truth anywhere else except in Jesus Christ. Good always prevails and light does away with darkness. Where there is light, there is no darkness and Jesus is the light of the world.

  • still wondering
    still wondering

    Here’s my 2 cents worth.

    Not all questions are valid simply because there are asked. The classic “have you stopped beating your wife” is based on several suppositions, namely you are married and you used to beat her. If neither are true the question is meaningless.

    So many of the questions I asked while a "witness" were likewise meaningless as the suppositions they were based on were untrue.

    Who says you have to go anywhere. I found doing the one thing that the WTBS never did was the uttering of what is to my mind the most important prayer ever recorded, the Lord’s Prayer.

    The more those simple words are used with due thought, sincerity and meditation I have come to realise a depth of understanding I never had before.

    Discard the New World Translation and obtain the the New Life Good News Bible. For the first time in 50 years I can enjoy and understand reading the Bible.

    Pick any verse at random, compare the two renderings and you will dump the NWT and treasure the other.

    Try it and see.

  • Spectre


    Thus the visa-versa.

    What is important is that one is comfortable with ones descision that one makes. If you want to believe the bible, fine, anymore I just think that it is Jewish mythology. If you want to kill someone, know that there will be consequences. I myself am personally comfortable with the Nietzsche overman(superman) idea, just be the best person that you can be. There is nothing that I will have to answer for after I die unless life was really all about how much I prayed, went to church and read the bible.

  • yaddayadda

    Just visit other church congregations to see what you make of them. The bible does say we should try and associate with other Christians, there's no getting around that. But once you can no longer stand JW meetings it's very hard to transition to another group because most of them teach just as much crap as JW's, if not more. But it's probably worth trying. Just explore.

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