If you take this opportunity then be gentle, don't dive in though if i heard my mum say that i'd be tempted to. Listen as much as you speak and show yourself to care about individual as much as them not being witness, that way your not views as a bitter person but genuine and that can only be good right?
Ok, so how big of a deal is it when a jw tells you this:
by Check_Your_Premises 34 Replies latest jw friends
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Check_Your_Premises
diehard lifer would never admit that to an ex-jw.
Just for the record Tet, I have never been a jw. As far as I ever got was to be impressed with their dedication to their faith, and to consider that it might be remotely possible, no matter how ridiculous it sounded, that they might be God's organization.
Other than that, thanks for the input.
CYP
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Check_Your_Premises
If you take this opportunity then be gentle, don't dive in though if i heard my mum say that i'd be tempted to. Listen as much as you speak and show yourself to care about individual as much as them not being witness, that way your not views as a bitter person but genuine and that can only be good right?
Yeah, when she said that to me, I really felt the pressure. I saw that such an admission would allow for a coup de grace for the masterful amatuer exit counselor. ON the other hand, I also recognized that any ham-handed attempt to force this opening to a sudden and ill-timed acceptance of the falsehood of TFDS doctrine would result in a total destruction of trust.
Mostly I tried to listen, and my questions were mostly diagnostic. I broached the subject of believing if it is the truth, mostly to sense her openess to that idea. I don't think she is open to it. We weren't able to finish the discussion because it was time for her to go the meeting. I was extra attentive in helping her to get ready. I also re-iterated that although I have practical objections to the behavior that results from her religion, I ultimately want her to do what she thinks is right, and will always support that. I reiterated that I would never want her to leave if she thought it was the truth, and I would always support her in that.
I think what I need to do now, is take the conversation outside of religion. This isn't really ultimately about the religion. The religion is simply an attempt to acquire control and happiness that has thus far eluded her. I doubt she will want to continue the conversation, since she went to her meeting and got her fix. Nevertheless, I will remind her that this is a conversation we have had before, and we will have again. Maybe that will open her up a bit. WHat made this conversation unique from past ones is that she admitted she felt like chucking it, and she wasn't happy. Those things have never been admitted.
Thanks all for your input. And any additional insights or advice on how to take advantage of this opportunity to help her regain some control over her life would be greatly appreciated.
CYP
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Check_Your_Premises
I don't know that this is any great breakthrough in her exit... rather it is at best a moment of clarity and willingness to admit that she is not happy. The challenge is to get her to deal with that fact, instead of running back to get her fix, only to put off the inevitable repeat of this conversation.
Her faith lies in the ritual to provide her with discipline and structure. Her bouts of exhaustion with the jw regimen always coincide with bouts of self loathing and re-activation of her bulimic behavior. When she is doing everything right "spiritually", that is when she feels good. She is in control. She is on top of things. She is working out, eating right, keeping the house orderly, going out in service. It all goes together.
The reality is my wife's problem is not that she is a jw. Her problem is that she is psychologically unbalanced... she has unresolved issues and experiences. She has experiences that she has not put in proper perspective. She has experiences that she has not rationalized. She has behavior resulting from those experiences that she has not recognized and understood, and therefore cannot control.
My problem is she has no desire to deal with those things. She isn't comfortable digging around upstairs. She sees such things as weaknesses. She only wants to make the symptoms go away. She only wants to feel in control. She doesn't want to deal with the ultimate causes of her problems. That has always been, and remains my challenge.
CYP
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Mary
Many Witnesses who stop going still feel that it is "the Truth". They're simply tired of having to go to 5 meetings a week and they're sick to death of having to go out in Service all the time. This is especially depressing in Developed countries because there's absolutely no interest or growth anymore. So naturally, they're going to feel like it's a total waste of time if they don't see any results.
You just have to tread carefully when talking to those who fall into this category. If you start sounding like "an apostate", those blinders might still go up on them, even if they're inactive Dubs.
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M.J.
Maybe you should have asked her why she was so unhappy and then worked on that.
That's a good one but sounds like you got it covered. It's kind of notable that such an admission happened right before a meeting. Sounds like the drudgery is taking its toll, along with the doubt.
CYP you were once a member of a highly structured, cohesive, demanding group once weren't you? I know it's not quite the same thing but perhaps it would profit you to probe your own thoughts on whether or not you had ever felt like not being "active" in that group anymore. Perhaps looking at the parallels might help you gain a bit more insight?
Anyway, hats off to you for your careful handling of this and for the wonderful communication you've established with her.
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Check_Your_Premises
probe your own thoughts on whether or not you had ever felt like not being "active" in that group anymore
I take it you are talking about the USMC?
That is really interesting. I never thought of that. They didn't shun me when I left...
CYP
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M.J.
Yeah, of course, it's not a perfect example, but who knows you might find some kind of parallels. When possible I always try and find parallels between my own experiences and the experiences of others just as a bit of an aid in understanding them better. Just a thought.
Maybe it would be good to schedule a nice vacation pretty soon?
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AuldSoul
Looks like you have tons of great advice in this thread already, CYP. I'll just toss in my two cents:
From a JW perspective her heart is at least "divided" for her to be able to say this to a non-JW. What she didn't mention is what her heart is divided toward that is opposing The Truth™ (All Rights Reserved, Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses). I think, in addition to giving her permission to take a break (great idea, BTW, Scully ) you might want to tactfully figure out what it is she is looking for outside the bOrg and make sure that her "vacation" gives her a great opportunity to connect with what is missing in the equation for her.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul -
Check_Your_Premises
What she didn't mention is what her heart is divided toward that is opposing The Truth
Could you clarify what you meant here? I didn't follow you.
CYP