by acadian 12 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • acadian

    Hello all,

    Am I missing the point between these scriptures, or did Paul get something wrong?

    Inconsistencies of the New Testament

    Jesus taught at MT 7:21 Not everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

    Paul taught at AC 2:21, RO 10:13 Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved

    Who do we believe?
    That's if you do believe.

    If not...

    What are your thoughts on these scriptures?


  • skyman

    My thought is that Jesus probably never really said the above and a scribe added the saying to Jesus. only 18% of the scriptures about Jesus has internal harmony among the oldest manuscripts so 82% of time we really don't know if a saying or action is really what he said or did.

  • acadian

    Hello skyman,

    So, I'm wondering who to believe, Paul or Jesus, one says one thing and the other says something else.

    I agree that the bible is corrupted, so it would seem we really don't know what Jesus taught, and if that's the case all of
    the churches professing to be christian don't have a clue as to what the truth really is.

    Any thoughts?


  • Alwayshere

    I will believe Jesus over Paul anytime.

  • FairMind

    I think you have to consider the points each was making. Jesus was perhaps speaking about those who live a self-serving life while claiming to (hypocritically) to be Christian. Paul on the other hand was most likely referring to those who in full faith call on the Lord Jesus. What do you Bible critics think?

  • Narkissos

    The problem is that most of the anti-Pauline Gospel statements make the best sense as... anti-Pauline, i.e. as a response to Pauline theology, i.e. as chronologically second to it.

    Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets (who ever said he did?); I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same (who did that?), will be called least (an allusion to the surname Paulus, i.e. "small"?) in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
    Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven (who ever said that confessing Jesus as Lord was all that is needed for salvation?), but only the one who does (= works) the will of my Father in heaven. On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name? (an allusion to the charismatic practices of the Hellenistic-Pauline churches?)' Then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers (lit. workers of lawlessness, cf. Paul's insistence on salvation without the law).

    So while there is an obvious inconsistency, the conclusion that Paul betrayed Jesus is only from taking the texts at face value. More probably the Judeo-Christians constructed an anti-Pauline Jesus just like Paul had constructed an anti-Jewish Christ. What a historical Jesus might have taught before this controversy is only guesswork imo.

  • Shining One
    Shining One


    A Tree and Its Fruit
    15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
    21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

    If you get away from JW style, single scripture exegesis then you probably already see the contextual difference between the two verses in question. Jesus is speaking of false prophets who have called upon the Lord NOT for salvation but for self gain.

    The Wise and Foolish Builders
    24"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."
    28When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, 29because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.

    In the above, Jesus is explaining the Sermon on the Mount to His audience. Below, Paul is explaining how one gets ‘saved’!

    5Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live by them."[a] 6But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'[b]" (that is, to bring Christ down) 7"or 'Who will descend into the deep?'[c]" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,"[d] that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."[e] 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."[f]

  • Shining One
    Shining One

    The only 'inconsistency' between these texts is the fact that they are not talking about the same thing. The context is not the same for both texts.

  • acadian

    Thanks for the comments guys!


  • A Paduan
    A Paduan

    Try not referring to Jesus as, "Lord, Lord"

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