2 Samuel chapter 24 - Don't mess with God!

by nicolaou 53 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Woodsman

    Thanks for handling Shining One Nicolaou.

    Else that was great.

  • RunningMan
    Why do people offer gifts to deities who commit atrocities???

    Down here on earth, we call this extortion. If you don't pay the man, he's gonna make it real tough on you.

  • LDH

    Kind of like cosmic "Chess," eh?

    God sure has been a really nice guy throughout history!

  • Raphael

    In understanding difficult issues in Scripture , it helps to try too see things in both their historical and cultural contexts and to interpret them within the framework of Gods perfect justice /love /wisdom and power....

    David was in a very privileged position - he was King ...God had place all authority and power in his hands.

    Davids' sin was not just a simple error in judgement - he acted with a certain deliberateness when taking the census - he acted with a spirit of arrogance and pride - two of the sins God hates most - David knew that the consequences would be disasterous - he was not acting in ignorance.

    To illustrate , I'll use a simple analogy: my young niece - 5 years old and her brother , my nephew 2 where taking a bath recently - they love bath time - because they get to splash about and make a mess as young kids generally do - their grandmother , my mum needless to say asked them not to splash water on the floor - my niece, I'm told then deliberately took a jug filled it with water and emptied it out onto the floor deliberately ;-) - why? we may ask - it seems senseless - I maintain she was trying to see how much she would get away with - before making her grandmother angry .

    David did much the same ...

    God in his justice - could not let this treacherous act go unpunished - even though in his heart he wanted nothing more than to forgive and wipe the slate clean - My God's heart was broken at Davids actions and heart attitude at the time , in the same way my mum may have felt at my young nieces deliberate act of naughtiness - should she walk away and forget about it - or was action required - I'll let you answer that for yourselves.

    God in his infinite mercy condescends and gives David a choice - what he wants from David is simply heartfelt repentence - acknowlegment that he has sinned against God and Israel - whome might I suggest were not merely innocent bystanders - they knew Gods warning about taking a census - they too had a choice - and could easily have disobeyed David - and given God obedience instead.

    God is hoping David would take responsibility for his sin - David doesn't - he fails to show hearfelt repentence - all he would need to do in order for God to turn from bringing judgement upon himself and the nation .

    Instead he ums and ahs about it - and then throws it back at God as if to say well what are you going to do about it then?

    God chooses - and 70000 people die - I suggest David is responsible for their deaths - he selfishly refused to take responsibilty - his actions effected an entire nation - he was their King and he acted presumptiously , with no regard for the nation God had entrusted to him - a lesson we sometimes fail to learn - our actions dont just affect us - they often have a ripple effect and especially when we are entrusted as stewards over the things that belong to God - Israel was not just any nation they were a holy nation entrusted with ultimately bringing salvation to the entire human race - "God is not one to be mocked"

    Yet in his infinite love and mercy - he cuts short the plague when David finally realises the full impact of his actions and does show heartfelt repentance and humbles himself under Gods mighty hand - all God wanted in the first place!

    Thats my 5 cents worth ....

    Excuse the spelling errors ;-)

    I'd be happy for others to add their 2 cents

  • LittleToe

    I'm interested in a few things in the account.

    • What kind of historic event might cause the deaths of that many people within three days, that would then be attributed to God?
    • Why didn't he get further retribution for numbering the 70,000 dead?
    • Is 70,000 a literal number or symbolic of something, given the propensity of round biblical numbers to have meanings rather than be literal?
    • Was 50 silver shekels a fair frice for the stuff he bought?

    People anthropomorphsed back then, too.

  • Raphael

    I trust you know the answers to your questions.

    A quote comes to mind

    "None so blind as those who will not see or rather choose not too ;-)"

  • Woodsman
    God in his justice - could not let this treacherous act go unpunished

    Only David didn't die. Just 70,000 of his countrymen.

    whome might I suggest were not merely innocent bystanders - they knew Gods warning about taking a census

    I didn't see this in the account. Is it somewhere else? The King and military leaders carried out the census. Valiant men were counted. Yet a pestilence is indiscriminant in its victims. Pestilence kills women and children who in ancient Israel had very little rights and certainly not the right to refuse the order of the King.

  • LittleToe

    You seriously think that David was trying to see how far he could go before pissing God off?

    That's a novel one. Was he a child?

    You really think that God was "hoping for the best" that David would make a good call, since he had allegedly just acted like a petulant child?

    Do you need a course in child psychology and/or exegesis?

    You've evidently thought some about it, but haven't really veered far from the JW partline, huh?

    PS - I know the answer to these questions, too

  • Raphael
  • LittleToe

    Is that veiled insult directed at me or all of the other posters on the thread?

    Also, have you ever heard of the term "passive aggressive"?

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